SHIP Harry & Ginny?

[cassandraclaire at mail.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 15447

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Kimberly" <moongirlk at y...> wrote:

Kimberly: Definitely.  I'm not advocating immediate relationship 
development,  just hoping for the eventual.

Right. I was just stating what I thought needed to happen for an H/G 
relationship to be realistic.
> 
> 
Kimberly: Ok, I get that the language used was rather... picturesque 
<g>, but I  don't see why a woman can't be nurturing to a man and 
still be strong,   and still be equal.

I never said that a woman couldn't be nurturing and still be equal. 
What I said 
was that if that was all she was and all she did, that would bother 
me. I was simply somewhat put off (and was trying, like Carole, not 
to be offended) by the idea of quiet, devoted little Ginny in the 
corner offering Harry unconditional love with no mention of any 
character development or life outside Harry for Ginny whatsoever. 
Note that there was and has been no mention of Harry offering Ginny 
unconditional love back. If Ginny is to be a nurturing character who 
is also strong and equal, FINE. We need to see some of that strength 
and that equality. That's all.

Kimberly: Ginny has demonstrated no tendency to treat Harry 
> like his mother.  I don't see the sin in being supportive of 
someone  you love.  It doesn't mean you do nothing else, and it 
doesn't mean  you don't have your own issues and struggles and 
adventures and  ambitions, it just means you *also* nurture and 
support the person you  care for, and I think it's an important 
aspect of any relationship."

Granted, but we are not talking about people and relationships in 
general, or anyone's personal experience, we are talking about Harry 
and Ginny specifically. My arguement is not that there is anything 
wrong with being supportive of someone you love. (Considering I'm an 
H/H shipper, and Hermione is extraordinarily supportive of Harry, 
there's no way I would argue that.) It's all very well to have your 
own issues and struggles and adventures and ambitions, but it just 
supports my point that if Ginny has these adventures and ambitions 
and issues, we don't know about them because she *has not been 
adequately developed as a character.* Try not to look at it as a 
personal thing and purely in literary terms: Harry is our 
protagonist, arguably the most developed character in the books. It 
makes logical sense to me that if he is to be intimately paired with 
someone else, that person should be a well-developed character as 
well, otherwise we as readers will find it jarring.

Kimberly: I hope we all get to spend some time around such boring 
wimps in our lifetimes.  In fact, I aspire to be just that kind of 
boring wimp for  someone someday (well, maybe not in so many words - 
being a balm sounds messy!).  And I don't have any intention of 
sacrificing my integrity, my interests or my dreams to do so.

I guess I really just don't aspire to being a boring wimp. I kind of 
don't think Ginny does either. I bet she'd really like some character 
development where she got to be brave, or do something interesting, 
or maybe got to tell the Great Harry Potter where to get off, just 
once. Wouldn't that be satisfying? Wouldn't it be nice to see? I 
guess I just can't help preferring a strong female character over a 
dull wimpy one whose "integrity, interests and dreams" are so far 
pure conjecture on the reader's part.

Kimberly: I'm shaking with shock at the idea that unconditional love 
is weak. It's the strongest kind of love there is.  It's the kind of 
love that  allows a person to lay down his or her life, it's the kind 
of love   that allows a person to move mountains.  It's anything but 
weak"

I don't recall ever having said that unconditional love is weak. What 
I said is that Ginny is weak as a character, not even so much 
personally as in terms of how she's been developed. Which is not 
much. I also said that I object to the theory that Harry's romantic 
partner should offer him the kind of love he's been missing all his 
life, because the kind of love he's been missing is parental love, 
and that is a different kind of love than the love a romantic partner 
can give you. Not worse, not better, but different. This is not a 
slam against Ginny's feelings for Harry, because frankly her feelings 
for Harry at the current moment are somewhere between adolescent 
crush and nothing much. I do not believe that Ginny is not an 
appropriate partner for Harry because she's offering him weak love or 
something (and I'm weirded out to have my statements interpreted that 
way) I think she is not an appropriate partner for him at the moment 
because they are unequally developed characters. I have repeatedly 
said that I would be happy to see H/G if JKR develops Ginny's 
character more and takes her in a stronger direction.


Kimberly: This I agree with, and I'm as anxious as anyone to see it.  
I doubt  you'll get too much dissention from H/Gers that we need to 
see what   Ginny's really all about.  It's just we're *hoping* for 
the good, strong, corageous Ginny we think we are going to find.  

Frankly, so am I. Complaining about the lack of her character 
development does not mean I don't ever want to see any. 

Cassandra