Possible Discrepancy in PS & Voldemort's Defeat

[nera at rconnect.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 18124

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Haggridd" <jkusalavagemd at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Andrea" <ra_1013 at y...> wrote:
> > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> > > Please say more, Andrea, because I also have a hard time 
> > > understanding this scene.  I get what Harry thinks and what 
Snape 
> > > thinks (possibly--it's not at all clear to me whether he 
suspects 
> > > that V comes into it somehow, or whether he just thinks Q is 
> trying 
> > > to get the Stone for some more mundane reason; I lean toward 
the 
> > > latter).  What I don't get is what Quirrell thinks Snape 
thinks.  
> > > This is key now that we all want to know how much Voldemort 
knows 
> or 
> > > suspects of Snape's true loyalties.  Can Snape plausibly claim 
to 
> be 
> > > loyal to Voldemort, or has he given himself away with his 
> activities 
> > > in PS/SS?
> > 
> > Hmm...well, I'm going to have to check my book once I get home to 
> be a 
> > little clearer about this scene.  I think that you could argue 
for 
> > either possibility - either that Quirrell/Voldie knew Snape knew 
> who 
> > they were, or that they just thought Snape thought it was 
Quirrell 
> > acting for selfish reasons.  Snape doesn't really make it clear, 
> other 
> > than the comment about choosing sides.  That could be argued for 
> > strongly suggesting that Snape knew it was Voldie calling the 
> shots.  
> > However, I think that it's equally plausible Snape was referring 
> just 
> > to supporting Dumbledore, who wanted the Stone to stay hidden, or 
> > going against him.  His support of Dumbledore at this stage could 
> be 
> > explained away as him staying "loyal" just so he could remain at 
> > Dumbledore's side, unsuspected, as the spy.  He could also say 
that 
> he 
> > was trying to keep the Stone safe so that *Snape* could use it to 
> help 
> > Voldie later, and he thought Quirrell just wanted it for himself.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Andrea
> 
> Thank you so much!  You have made it seem so obvious in retrospect, 
> but if it weren't for your insight I would not have seen it.  The 
> question of what Voldemort now knows about Snape because of this 
> conversation is now critical, as was brought out by the long back-
and-
> forth discussion recently about Snape's mission.  Please review the 
> text and bless us with further revelations!
> 
> Thanks again, 
> Haggridd

***************************
 "I saw you and Snape in the forest --" he blurted out.

    "Yes," said Quirrell idly, walking around the mirror to look
at the back. "He was on to me by that time, trying to find out
how far I'd got. He suspected me all along. Tried to frighten me -
as though he could, when I had Lord Voldemort on my side...."


My guess is that Snape had no clue that Voldemort was with Quirrel 
and that Snape only thought that Quirrel was trying to get the stone. 
I think that if he *knew* that Voldemort was with Quirrel, he would 
have stalked him and possibly tried to prevent him from getting the 
stone, but I do not think he would have been stupid enough to have 
any conversations with Quirrel that he would have to *explain later* 
to Voldemort. I think he just wanted to beat Quirrel to the punch in 
getting the stone/keeping the stone safe. 

I doubt that either Snape nor Dumbledore know that Voldemort is with 
Quirrel, or else they would never have lured Quirrel to the stone. Or 
would they? Perhaps each meeting of Harry and Voldemort at 
Voldemort's various stages of weakness, are all part of a master 
plan. Each time that Harry meets Voldemort, the idea being that he is 
to learn more about Voldemort, and Harry is to gain confidence in 
beating him each time. Thus, when Voldemort reaches his full strength 
and returns, Harry and only Harry, will be able to defeat him.

I think the reason that Harry does not defeat him in the first two 
meetings is that Voldemort can not be destroyed totally, in his 
present states at those meetings.

In the end, I think that Ron will most certainly either be killed or 
gravely wounded, and this will be the force that drives Harry to 
destroy Voldemort. I realize that Voldemort did kill Harry's parents 
and deprive him of a normal life with these parents, but I don't 
think this, alone, is enough to enrage him to rise up against 
Voldemort. It is just my own theory. Harry has lived his whole life 
without his parents, thereby never getting to know them and love them 
the way that he would have if they had raised him. I just don't think 
that his anger about the deaths of parents he never knew is strong 
enough for that kind of retaliation. I do, however, think that if 
Harry were to witness the death of his best friend at the hands of 
Voldemort, that it would create the kind of fury which would be 
necessary to seek revenge by destroying Voldemort.

Whoops! I certainly trailed off the subject here. Sorry.
Doreen