[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape the spy-- the play so far...

[Amanda Lewanski]

No: HPFGUIDX 18236

MMMfanfic at hotmail.com wrote:

> It's time for a useful summary on the Spy theory and the arguments for
> and against since I have a compulsion of doing literature
> review/summary.  Personally, I couldn't decide whether he's going to
> be a spy or not.

<snip of excellent points "for">

> The argument against:
> These are more complex...
> 1. The whole plot of PS/SS does not fit in.  It could not be easily
> explained away.  Especially the line -- 'When you have time to decide
> where your loyalty lies' seems to suggest strongly that Snape did know
> that the Dark side was involved in some way.

I still think that Snape is talking about Quirrell's loyalty to
Dumbledore, versus his betrayal of Dumbledore (by stealing the stone)
for whatever purpose. I don't think Snape does know why Quirrell wants
it; at the moment Quirrell is working against Dumbledore's wishes, and
that is enough to make Snape suspicious and observant, yet not enough to
tip Dumbledore off (until he, Snape, has more information and isn't
involved in a demeaning he/said-he/said). Quirrell's attack on Harry
evidently prompted the Forbidden Forest episode, so Snape knows
something major is up. However, given the small amount I think Snape
knows for certain, Snape could have interpreted this attack on the most
famous student at the school, which would have resulted in his serious
injury or death, to have been simply an attempt at a spectacular
distraction.

Sorry, running longwinded. But I think the loyalty comment can be viewed
with no Voldemort factor in it at all, and it works fine.

>  Secondly, Voldemort didn't trust Snape enough in PS/SS to let him
> learn the fact that he's occupying Quirrel's body, suggesting that
> Voldemort is at least uncertain about Snape's loyalty.

Well, heck yeah. Voldemort's in no position to find out whether he is
correct about Snape. You find that sort of thing out when you are in a
position of strength, not the precarious existence he has in PS/SS.
Voldemort isn't sure Snape's not his, but he's sure not going to ask
right now.

> 2. The three missing DE: The coward, the left forever and the Most
> faithful servant.  The automatic fit would be: Karkaroff--the coward;
> Crouch jr.--MFS; Snape--left forever.

Yeah. The creepy thought strikes me, every time I write how Snape could
convince Voldemort of his loyalty, that Snape might actually *be* loyal.
What I type as his "line" to Voldemort might be true. I remember that
Dumbledore looked apprehensive. Because Snape might indeed return to
Voldemort's service? How ooky. But I still think Crouch JR. is the
faithful one, didn't Voldemort refer to Crouch Jr. specifically as that?

There's been really, really good arguments for Snape = coward and
Karkaroff = left forever, but Voldemort's comments seem to leave room
for either to return if they want to face the music. Both roles would
require some really good explaining, but it could be done.

> 3. Harry has openly mused about the possibility.  According to MMM's
> third rule of HP, Harry or Ron's speculation about Snape is always
> wrong because JKR gets her kick out of misleading us about Snape
> through Harry.

This is the kicker. I can temper this, though, with the thought that JKR
only gets us used to absolutes in order to break them. She might well
put in a valid observation just to mess us up.
AND this musing occurs to Harry, as Harry sits there contemplating Snape
in that new, mature, dispassionate way. Seeing Snape differently.
Perhaps his observations of Snape, his "take" on him, has matured
sufficiently for him to make an accurate assessment?

> (BTW, the first rule is NEVER, NEVER under any circumstances, name or
> allow your son to be named after yourself.  Witness Tom Riddle, Barty
> Crouch.)

Yeah, if I'd named either of my sons Amanda it might have really messed
them up.

> Spy enthusiasts's rebuttal

covered a lot of what I said but after all that typing I sent it anyway.

> I think it is very, very likely that Snape was the one informing
> Dumbledore about the Potters. (Wait till Harry finds out,can you
> imagine the shock?)

I think so, too, especially after that office confrontation scene in
PoA.

--Amanda


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