Language at Durmstrang + its location

[Ev vy]

No: HPFGUIDX 28819

This may seem bit OT, as I get to my point down the page, but I just wanted
to correct some inconsistencies concerning languages in Central and Eastern
Europe and how it may concern language at Durmstrang.


From: "Eric Oppen" <oppen at cnsinternet.com>
To: <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:14 PM
> On the one hand, German continues to be sort of a "lingua franca" in a
lot
> of Eastern Europe; this is a relic of the days when most of the cities
and
> towns were mainly German-speaking, and Slavic, Romanian and Magyar were
the
> dialects of peasants.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with this statement. More people know
Russian than German, mainly because in most of the countries this language
was obligatory to learn at school (I have learned it in my primary school
and only after 1989/1990 my school offered additional courses in German; my
parents also learned Russian obligatorily and German and English outside
school; and so did most of the pupils and students here in Poland, as well
as in other countries). And I would also disagree that German was
prevailing in towns or a "linua franca", it simply depended on the area: in
East-Eastern Europe the prevailing language was rather Russian than German.
And the native aristocracy, not the peasants (for whom Slavic, Romanian or
Magyar were simply native languages, not dialects), were rather keen on
knowing their native language. And still it would be easier to communicate
with them in French rather than German.

> For a long, long time, up till the end of WWII, a lot
> of the professional classes and middle-classes in Eastern and
Southeastern
> Europe were German-speaking, and I'm told that to this day, German is a
good
> language to know if you don't know the local speech in these
areas---still
> more widespread than English.

Again, this is only partly true, these classes were German-speaking because
of intense migration which begun in 14th century and continued. But, it
didn't mean that these classes developing among native population used
German as their day-to-day language, more likely as a language of
professional exchange. Still, it was true unitl WWII, after the war the
migration movements were supposed to place people according to their origin
and native language, and it is mainly so. For example in Poland, these
classes were rather scarce, as they didn't develop among Poles.
However, it all depended on the area of influence. German is better known
in the areas which were under Prussian or Austrian reigns, Russian is as
common on the areas which were under Russian influence. And IMNSHO, it
doesn't make much difference if you know German or English, nowadays
they're equally common. It's still best to know Russian.

> On the other hand, the only Durmstrang types we get to meet have
> Slavic-sounding names (although this, in itself, doesn't necessarily mean
> much; there was a lot more movement between countries in Eastern Europe
than
> most people are aware of in the US) so the language used may be one of
the
> Slavic tongues.

True, the migration between counteries was common, but again, names are
rather characteristic for the countries. If you came aross Krum in Poland,
you would be immiedately thinking, that the person is a foreigner. Apart
from maybe two regions of Poland, where names of German origin are common.
For Poland most characteristic names end with -ski/-ska (depending on a
gender) or -icz, so for me as a native Pole none of the names in GoF sound
even remotely Polish. Even for the countries which belonged to USSR, there
are very slight but distinct differences in names. And if you hear this or
that name you immiedately know the origin of the person, and I'd say that
people in Central and Eastern Europe are rather keen on noticing those
differences,as it's a matter of identity.

> Since many of these languages have high default rates (for
> example, if you know, say, Polish, you have a big leg up on learning
Russian
> and Czech) they could require that students coming in from backgrounds
that
> do not speak the language of instruction must first master at least
enough
> of Durmstrang's language of instruction to be able to follow along in
> lessons, even if they speak with horrendous accents.

Here, I would definitely opt for Russian. First, most people are at least
vaguely familiar with this language. Second, it's conjugation and
declension is much easier, than let's say Polish (don't know a thing about
Czech or Slovak). Third, the stress in Russian is a horrible thing to
learn, but it has a nice and easy accent.

> Durmstrang could well have been founded by German-speaking wizards about
the
> same time Hogwarts was founded, but now, thanks to Muggle politics, be
> dominated to such an extent by Slavic-speakers that the language of
> instruction itself has changed.

It depends on location. The further east, the more it could have been
dominated by Slavic speakers. OTOH, there were much more Slavic speakers
anyway in the Central and Eastern Europe, so the language might have
changed at any time in the past. And it could have been entirely
independent of politics. If Durmstrang is located somewhere in the Alps,
it's rather certain that the language is more likely to be German than any
other. But if it's located in the Carpathian, then it would depend on more
precise location. However, German would be likely as for a long time the
whole area was under Austrian reign. But from what I gathered from GoF,
it's extremely cold there where the school is located. Then, neither the
Alps nor the Carpathian are likely as they aren't that cold, even in
winter. So the most probable would be Ural Mounatins. Consequently the
language would be Russian.

I opt for Russian anyway. But for the majority of Durmstrang students it
wouldn't make really much difference which language it really is, they
would have to learn it. And from my experience, it's as hard to learn an
enirely different langauge (for me German) than a similar (In my case
Russian) to one's native language. The latter requires a lot of effort to
avoid confusion, many false friends.

Respectfully,
Ev vy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There's nothing level in our cursed natures
But direct villainy.
      William Shakespeare "Timon of Athens"
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