[HPforGrownups] Wizard weaknesses, the unjust world, HP & English individualism, stereotypes

[Catherine Keegan]

No: HPFGUIDX 29165

Back from a lovely three weeks in France and rather overwhelmed by the 
volume of mail even when I sighed, gave up and didn't read the three weeks' 
worth when I was gone...

Tabouli's post was interesting on so many levels but, as an American and 
having just returned from overseas, I was fascinated by the American 
stereotypes presented.

One thing I feel compelled to note is that when you say "American", you're 
need to deal with several stereotypes.  We have several.

The "East Coast" stereotype which is a lot more English.  There is a class 
system of old vs. new money.  Things tend to be more formal.  Lots of 
expectations of what you should do.  (At least that's this west coaster's 
observations when visiting my huge Irish Catholic family back in NJ and PA)

There's the "South" which is either genteel and clever or stupid and racist.

Texas.  A class all by itself.  The rebel spirit.  Oil barons.  Big 
hats.  Big hair.

The Midwest which is still rather a mystery to me.  Good corn-fed types who 
do the right thing

The west.  The west tends to be strictly divided by money.  A lot of your 
social status depends on lifestyle and perceived wealth.  Except Silicon 
Valley where your hardware and software base counts.  (I got snubbed at a 
party when I made the mistake of saying I coded COBOL at the time.)

At 08:48 PM 11/13/01 +1100, you wrote:
>Take fairytales.  Goldilocks?  Jack and the Beanstalk?  Rule-breaking 
>trespassers!  Cinderella?  Doesn't know her place and flouts 
>authority!  Little Red Riding Hood?  Innocent led astray by a predatory 
>villain!  Rumplestiltskin?  Innocent who triumphs over evil by cheating!

I read a kid's version of the old testament several years ago.  Same stuff.

>I'm on shakier ground with the US, as I'm not nearly as familiar with the 
>place, but I'll take a stab.
>
>Americans, unlike the English, tend to encourage people to express their 
>emotions,

Depends on where you are.  Crying on the east coast would probably be less 
ok than on the west.

>  and do not attach the same stigma to taking authority figures, religion, 
> rules, patriotism, etc. seriously.

Ooooh.  Depends on when.  Right now, patriotism is very cool indeed but I 
remember not very long ago when the older man who saluted the flag got 
sneers from the younger crowd.  Authority figures are still heavily 
questioned, religion is still viewed with suspicion if it's not yours.

>The morality/convenience distinction exists, but is not differentiated to 
>the same degree, as the greater Christian influence in the US means that 
>the right/wrong distinction is more globally applied - more people would 
>view breaking rules, lying, etc. as immoral in itself.  It's one thing for 
>the mostly secular/nominally monotheistic English to sneer at politicians, 
>quite another for the more wholeheartedly monotheistic Americans to 
>question the authority of God.

"Greater Christian influence".  Maybe somewhere other than 
California.  Rule breakers are glorified here in the media and in both the 
celebrity and sports world (same thing?) as the cool rebel 
types.  Wholeheartedly monotheistic made me laugh out loud since I know a 
bunch of Wiccans, Druids, shamans, etc...

Tabouli, thanks for the world view.  It paints us far more Norman Rockwell 
than I had thought.

>  Even those have their doubts about whether a particular individual's 
> efforts and talents really merit his/her high position still mostly 
> respect the position itself.  I'm reminded of an interview I saw after 
> September 11th with an American man who said he wasn't sure if Bush was 
> up to the job of leading the country through the next few months said 
> "But he's our president, so I guess we've got to put our faith in 
> him".  Can't see the wizards saying that of Fudge as the Voldemort War 
> approaches, somehow...

Hmmm.  I can imagine Fudge's machine going into action though and making 
sure that the infobytes that the Daily Prophet puts out makes it sound that 
way.  Read it enough times and you think it must be so.  Remember Molly's 
reaction to Hermione after reading Rita's columns?

>Which would seem to be the exact philosophy behind the booming legal 
>profession in the US... you mustn't break laws, that's Wrong: what you 
>should do is figure out a way to make obeying the rules work for you!

No, it's more like buy the best lawyer and put on enough of a show to win.

Thanks again for the wonderful post.

Catherine in California who's  thrilled to see the rain and even happier to 
find out that Fort Bragg will  show HP this Friday