Darkness in Literature, Language, NYT

[David]

No: HPFGUIDX 29553

Penny wrote:

> LITERATURE CLASSIFICATIONS -- I am still unpersuaded that these are
> childrens' books.  :--D

I said, earlier:
> 
>  > I find it
>  > hard to  summarise, but I think the darkness is all 'within' the
>  > framework JKR  has set up - it is not 'part' of the framework.
> 
> I'm not positive I understand that last sentence David.  

OK, I have trouble understanding the issues here myself.  I think 
it's at least partly to do with the role of doubt, particularly doubt 
sown in the reader's mind.

For example, when Quirrell says 'There is no good and evil, only 
power and those who know how to use it', that is, I'm fairly sure, 
only evidence of how badly he has been corrupted.  It is not 
seriously put forward by JKR as an alternative.  We don't really 
discuss on this list whether Quirrell might have a point here 
(perhaps we should?) because, in the context of the wider narrative, 
it doesn't make sense.  I just don't believe that in Book 6 or 7 that 
we *as readers* will ever be led to wonder if, perhaps, it might not 
really matter after all if Voldemort takes over.  We might see a Ron 
or a Fudge thinking that, but it will all turn out to be the workings 
of a hidden spell, or giving way to temptation, jealousy or office - 
we won't be asked to waver ourselves.

So, in terms of framework, the HP-verse has a moral framework in 
which the characters move and change sides - but the framework 
itself, I really believe, won't be challenged as an appropriate way 
to think about behaviour.

Let me reiterate that I don't want JKR to try - I like HP fine the 
way it is.  But other literature does do that kind of thing.

Penny again:
> I agree with Caius!  I also don't think she dumbs down her 
language, 
> which is another reason I don't think she's writing specifically 
for children.

Having read all four books aloud to my kids, I agree with those who 
regard the language as complex.  BTW, I delight in reading aloud - 
just because the kids are capable of reading the books for themselves 
doesn't prevent me from reading, and them from enjoying, them aloud.

Interesting comments by Cindy and Penny on the Harry-Ron conflict in 
GOF.  Oddly enough, I think this part is 'big potatoes' in terms of 
the maturity of response called for from the reader.  Only Winky's 
slide into dissolution and the Pensieve scenes really compare.  How 
do we feel about the idea of a 'best friend' who so readily believes 
that Harry is lying?  This, like Winky and the show trials, is a 
sudden shaft of reality in the fantasy.

Penny:
> I also, when you get right down to it, 
> mostly hate the relegation of the books from the main bestseller 
list as 
> a consequence of how they get labelled.  If they are the 
bestselling 
> books in the country, then they should be reflected on the main 
> bestseller list.  Especially since it's already been established 
that 
> adults are reading them in large numbers.

On this, I am with you completely, Penny.  We love our categories and 
labels, but not for pejorative purposes, or commercial manipulation.

David