[HPforGrownups] Flower of the Court

[Catherine Keegan]

No: HPFGUIDX 29904

At 06:26 PM 11/25/01 +1100, Tabouli wrote:
>OK, all you SCA types (I know you're out there!), isn't "Flower of the 
>Court" a semi-medieval reference?  As in, didn't the French nobility, 
>while they were still about pre-Revolution, have sort of... regular 
>administrative meetings of all the dukes and barons and suchlike

Fleur de la cour could be a reference across loads of time periods.  The 
French Kings did have governmental meetings.  And?  (Being part of the SCA 
hardly gives one the right to be a historian.  Oh, the stories I could tell 
but I won't since I'd hate to see yet another fine list go down in the SCA 
flamewars...)

>Presumably it was mostly the male nobles who did the talking, with the 
>possible exception of a few older and more strident women; the younger 
>female nobles' function was primarily decorative and, presumably, 
>marketing, in the sense that appropriate suitors of their class would be 
>able to admire and speculate.  The meeting place or meeting itself or 
>something was, I think, called "the court"  and this would make the young 
>and decorative women "Flowers of the Court".

It was definitively a male-dominated society.  While there were some 
powerful women in the MA (Eleanor of Aquitaine, Adela of Blois, Agnes de 
Sorrel, poor old Jehanne d'Arc et al), the guys ran the show.  I suspect 
your memories are of the courts of love which were popular during the 12th 
century.  Eleanor herself and her daughter Marie de Champagne (argh!  I 
think that's the right name but not certain) are associated with the courts 
of love.

Marriage among the nobles was a way to bind families together.  Love didn't 
get much attention when arranging a legal contract that involved dowries 
and land and inheritance and money.

>Which fits in nicely with Fleur's Veela beauty and people's comments that 
>Fleur's family might be the French equivalent of the Malfoys.  Fleur could 
>be descended from the French wizarding nobility  which would explain a lot 
>of her lofty behaviour in the barbarous lands of Britain.

Maybe.  The French ladies that I know have generally been a  lot more 
formal than what I'm used to.  Of course, here in California, you rarely 
run into anything formal.  I never had a vision of Fleur as lofty.  She 
strikes me as a very pretty women who knows it and uses it.

>For all the religious hoo-ha over the HP series, I don't think JKR has 
>shown us a clear picture of the Potterverse take on subjects religions 
>address, such as what happens when people die.
>
>She's scrupulously avoiding having any intangible "god" or "gods" around, 
>though, and hasn't mentioned where souls "go" if they don't become 
>ghosts.  Can ghosts resolve whatever issue left them stranded and go on to 
>the afterlife?  Speaking of which, *is* there any sort of wizard 
>afterlife, or do souls just dissipate into the ether (or into the 
>Dementors' dark digestive juices)?  Is there a wizard heaven or 
>hell?  She's painted fairly clear delineations between good and evil, but 
>hasn't indicated whether Voldemort's followers will ultimately be punished 
>after death for their evil ways.  Is the big V seeking immortality because 
>he fears wizard hell?

Fine questions all!  I really appreciate the way she's avoided talking 
about religion in her series.  I do love the hazy lines and big gray areas 
left unanswered.  Sorta like real life.  What is good?  What is really, 
really bad.  Can you be redeemed?  I just don't expect Voldemort to 
suddenly change his mind and start planting daisies and making 
amends.  But, what about Lucius Malfoy?  Could he become a good 
guy?  Probably not but is he irredeemable?  What about Dumbledore?  Are all 
of his motivations good?  Does he get the automatic gold star?  Maybe he 
has a seedy past...

We probably will never get a glimpse of Wizard religion.  I suspect that 
the Muggle-born Wizards follow whatever faith they were born to but the 
pure bloods, tucked in their little world, may have no organized religion 
at all.  Or, maybe they were part of the main stream until some unknown 
date and are all good CofE types.  Maybe they never have to make the 
decision of whether to celebrate Christmas or Haunnakah.

Good questions, Tabouli.  Should provide fodder for many messages!

Catherine in California