Hermione and power (touches on SHIPping); More on Hermione

[Penny & Bryce]

No: HPFGUIDX 29922

Hi --

Hella wrote:

> This topic comes at a good time, just after a fresh batch of shipping
> debates. I was explaining to a friend the different 'shipping'
> positions concerning Hermione, and she agreed with H/H, saying that
> Hermione likes Harry. She thinks that Hermione has a 'thing' for
> power. Her evidence is Hermione's crush on Lockhart as he was
> a 'powerful' professor, at least in the duration of CoS (I poo-poohed
> this but she was adamant). What does this tell us about her
> relationship with Lupin?
> 
> However the next things she said were a bit jarring - that Hermione
> likes Harry because of his power and his fame and that's the same
> reason she likes Krum. I argued with her on that, saying actually
> Hermione was doing something quite unpopular with her friends by
> going out with Krum, but she seems to think otherwise.

Very interesting questions, Hella!  I can't fault your friend for her 
shipping preference (<vbg>) BUT ... I think, as others have pointed out, 
that she is making a mistake in equating fame with power.  The 3 
crushes/love interests cited (Lockhart, Krum and Harry) do have one 
thing in common: fame.  As I'll explain more below, I do think that 
Hermoine likes Harry in a romantic sense, but I definitely don't think 
it has anything to do with his fame.  In fact, I think it's the 
opposite.  Same thing with Krum.  I think Hermione looks at the real 
person underneath the fame (*after* the Lockhart crush, of course!).

Lockhart: Like Ebony, I'm inclined to dismiss this as a Male Veela type 
crush.  It's also probably her first crush (she's 12 or 13 in CoS, 
depending on your interpretation of that Magical Quill).  Either 12 *or* 
13 is right at the right age for a crush on a teacher or older man.

Krum: I do *not* think she went to the Yule Ball with Krum to make Ron 
jealous.  She had already accepted a date with Krum *before* Ron started 
trying to round up a date for one thing.  The whole "it's may have taken 
*you* 3 years to notice I'm a girl" conversation seems to me to be from 
the vantage point of indifference.  If she'd really been aching for Ron 
to ask her, wouldn't she have tried to hold out awhile longer?  No, I 
think she went with Krum because she'd grown to like him & recognized 
that his attentions were genuine.  He is probably more serious about her 
than she ever was about him ... that much is clear.  She apparently 
can't restrain herself from talking about Harry constantly in Krum's 
company for one thing.  <vbg>

As for Harry, I think Hermione knows better than almost anyone how much 
Harry hates his fame & how he would never trade on it to gain power. 
So, *if* she did have an attraction to powerful males, Harry would be 
the last person she should pursue.

I suppose it can be argued that fame in a sense is power.  But, as Ebony 
pointed out, Hermione is clearly not enamored of all power & at whatever 
the cost.  So, I definitely disagree that Hermione could be used by the 
Dark Side for *that* reason. I'm not saying she has no weaknesses 
susceptible to manipulation by the Dark Side ... but an overly-attuned 
desire for power or to be associated with power is, IMO, not one of them.

> 
> Another thing that seems to be implied is that Hermione is only
> friends with Ron because she has to be in order to maintain her
> relationship with Harry. (This is also her theory as to Hermione's
> positions in the PoA fight and the GoF fight). I guess the reason
> this rubs me the wrong way is that Hermione strikes me as being a
> very earnest and honest sort of person. I do think she loves Ron as
> much as Harry in terms of friendship, and just can't see her being
> dishonest about that.

I'm no Ron fan myself, and I definitely ship H/H.  But, I absolutely 
hate it when people try to qualify the friendships amongst the Trio. 
This typically comes up with people maintaining that Ron is more 
important to Harry than Hermione because of the 2nd Task in GoF. 
Interesting to see it argued in the context of Hermione's valuing Harry 
over Ron.  In both cases, I disagree.  I think if asked who their best 
friend is, any of the 3 would immediately respond with the names of the 
other *2* characters.  I should dig through canon for examples, but I 
know that JKR has used the phrase "other best friend" in reference to 
Hermione.

I don't doubt for a second that as far as *friendship* is concerned, 
Hermione would value Harry and Ron equally.  As far as potential 
romantic interest goes, she may or may not yet have a preference.  Any 
of us who spend any amount of time in the shipping debates should 
acknowledge that Hermione's feelings are a wild card at best .... as 
many arguments can be made that she likes Ron as can be made that she 
likes Harry.  She is an adolescent girl, and so it is also possible that 
she likes *both* of them romantically to some extent ... she wouldn't be 
the first person to be confused about her own feelings after all.  My 
opinion is that she likes Harry of course; I see the Hermione likes 
Harry evidence as stronger in a purely subjective sense.

 
> One other question for shippers: what does who Hermione likes have to
> do with her personality? I think this may be the crux of the debate,
> as I understand it. I think that H/H shippers and R/H shippers have a
> very different opinion on who Hermione is and what is most important
> to her. This notion came to me only after my friend made those power
> comments. I'm aware that H/H-ers tend to love Hermione as their
> favourite character, and probably don't view her as power-hungry, but
> I was hoping to understand whether or not there might be some
> differences in the way the two 'camps' view Hermione.

I agree with Ebony's assessment here.  As a broad generalization, I 
think the R/H shippers tend to value Ron above all else.  We H/H 
shippers, as a general rule, identify strongly with Hermione.  I do 
think the H/H shippers put a bit more emphasis on Hermione's feelings 
than the R/H shippers (it's been my experience that many R/H shippers 
point immediately to Ron's obvious attraction for Hermione as evidence 
that R/H are destined ....completely forgetting to mention how 
*Hermione* might view this). I picture Hermione as someone who wants an 
active say in pursuing a romantic relationship (not as someone who is 
"won over" by the attentions of a male).

Calypso wrote that she would never kiss or hug a boy she felt romantic 
interest in (and admitted to being close to Hermione's age).  She said 
she would, however, freely kiss & hug boys she was just friends with. 
Therefore, her view is that the Kiss at the end of GoF was just a sign 
of friendly or sibling-like affection.  Actually, we've had plenty of 
evidence from other teenage girls that says the opposite (that she did 
kiss Harry because she likes him romantically that is).  I don't think 
there is a uniform teenage girl position on this issue.  Some girls 
would rather die than show overt affection towards a boy she was 
attracted to; others would "test the waters" in a neutral situation. 
Point: we don't know what Hermione's stance on this sort of thing is. 
All we do know is that Rowling subtly emphasized the kiss.  Red Herring 
or red flag?  Time will tell.

Penny