Hermione, power, shipping - Temperance, the Crouches, the justice system

[Amy Z]

No: HPFGUIDX 29966

Hella wrote:

> I'm aware that H/H-ers tend to love Hermione as their
> favourite character, and probably don't view her as power-hungry, 
but
> I was hoping to understand whether or not there might be some
> differences in the way the two 'camps' view Hermione.

Really interesting post, Hella!  It's good to hear from you again.

I doubt it has much correlation with shipping, but then, I'm an R/Her 
of the "looks like it's what's going to happen" stripe, not of the 
"these two belong together and I'll throw myself off the West Tower if 
it doesn't happen" stripe.  And I love Hermione to pieces; she's one 
of the characters I identify with most (as Harry is, and as Ron is 
not).  So I don't think I fall into either of Ebony's 
categories--neither a H/Her who needs to Cut Ron a Break nor a R/Her 
who discounts Hermione's feelings--but she knows that already *grin*. 
 
I think your friend needs to cite some evidence that Hermione cares 
about power (or fame, or wealth).  It's a bit difficult to argue a 
negative--all I can say is I see nothing to indicate it, unless one is 
going to be so uncharitable as to assume that *anyone* who is friends 
with someone famous is really only interested in reflected glory.  
There *is* lots of evidence that she is strongly motivated by kindness 
(e.g. re: Neville), affection (e.g. re: Harry, Ron), and loyalty (e.g. 
re: Hagrid).  And why doesn't your friend argue the same about Ron?  
Ron's got a famous best friend, too, yet there is nothing in the books 
to suggest that his friendship is motivated by anything but liking for 
Harry.  Tell her to join the group and share her POV!

Fascinating Temperance essay by Peg, fascinating response by Rita.  
Sorry to snip so much out, but I'll just respond to this bit:

Rita wrote:

> Barty was right to send his own son to Azkaban: we now know that the 
> boy was a monster, guilty as hell, a public danger. I expect the 
jury 
> believed it, too; probably they didn't vote "guilty" just to please 
> Barty. The problem is that Barty relented, moderated his passion for 
> justice, and showed mercy to his dying wife and Junior, and violated 
> both justice and law by helping Junior escape from Azkaban.

That may well be the case, but we can't know for sure.  We can't even 
be sure that Junior was guilty at the time of his trial.  Perhaps he 
was only flirting with DE-hood and it was his father's hatred for him, 
expressed in the most public and absolute way possible ("I have no 
son"), that pushed him over the edge.  Junior had a year of torment in 
Azkaban (GF 27) with no reason to hope that he would ever escape, and 
when he did, it was not through his father's relenting towards him, 
but only towards his mother--or that's what Junior thought, anyway 
("She persuaded my father to rescue me as a last favor to her.  He 
loved her as he had never loved me," GF 35).  

In short, it's possible that the original conviction was unjust and 
that Senior therefore undermined law but not justice when he rescued 
his son.  However, by that time, the damage was done; the reckless boy 
had turned into a true criminal whose hatred was focused on his 
father.  He turned into a true sadist and Voldemort-lover too.  In 
that case the intemperance of the wartime "justice" system (typified 
by Crouch Sr.'s rigidity and zeal) was indeed partly to blame for the 
events of GF.

Just a possibility.

Amy Z
who is certainly intemperate when it comes to HP and has had the same 
sobering thought (pun intended) as Peg, though hadn't connected it to 
Dumbledore's wise warning

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 Grenouille: I cannot go with you to the
   market today, Crapaud.
 Crapaud:  But Grenouille, I cannot carry
   the cow alone.
             -Quidditch Through the Ages
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