LOLLIPOPS vs LOVESLAVE, English linguistics, Krum, Filch

[Tabouli]

No: HPFGUIDX 27008

Pippin:
> Ahem, who says one can't be a Snape/Lily advocate *and* a 
vampire brigadier? I am pleased to announce the formation of 
L.O.V.E.S.L.A.V.E (Leage Of Violently Enamoured Snape/Lily And 
Vampire Enthusiasts. Membership is free.<

Free, huh?  Well, if you're gonna be like that...

OK, let's be civil here.  I suppose one *could* be both a Snape/Lily advocate and a vampire brigadier, but I think the latter somewhat impinges on the clean-cut no-repeats Occam's-razor purity of the former explanation of Snape's behaviour.  We've already had a werewolf and several Animagi: the vampire theory is just more of the same (and to be honest, I think Snape has already got enough intrigue about him without having to tip vampiricism into his already overflowing cauldron).  So far we *haven't* had a tragic romance in the plot.  Sexual jealousy is more than enough to make someone bitter and nasty without having to have a tragic concealed-vampire secret on top of it.  Sailors on the Good Ship LOLLIPOPS, unite!

Barb:
> Ron sometimes affects the same attitudes that Draco Malfoy does, not because he is rich, but because 
a part of him would like to be.<

Mm.  Hadn't thought of this.  I always assumed that Ron, though less stewed in the juices of wealth than the Malfoys, had the typical attitudes of the insular pure-blood Wizard community, diluted slightly by his father's obsession with Muggles.

4FR:
> We envy things that others possess, but can only be jealous regarding things that belong to us.

Really?  I used to use these words almost interchangeably until I was told that "jealousy" refers specifically to personal, and usually sexual feelings.  Envy, on the other hand, I thought referred more to feelings about objects or abstract states.  But maybe my source was wrong.  Very educational, this list...


Amy Z:
> She talks quite a bit about Harry's envy of *Dudley*--interesting.

A good point.  Despite Harry's dislike of Dudley, I suppose we should take as given that on some level he must envy him (be jealous of him?) terribly.

Rowena:
> I understand once upon a time (c. 800-900) English
was much the same (genders, tenses etc.) and we have
the Danes to thank for the much easier language we speak today.<

I've always wondered about this myself, having grappled with a couple of European languages in my time.  Getting almost rid of case was a particularly good idea.  Some Asian languages, notably Indonesian, are even more streamlined.  A lot of them dispense with the articles "a" and "the", plural forms, and the whole changing verb form (I run, he runs, I ran yesterday, we went running, etc.) bonanza as well.  Makes it tricky for them to learn European languages, though.  I'm glad I got a good foundation in Indo-European grammar through high school French and studying various other languages (I learnt about case through Japanese lessons, where my language school did an excellent job of explaning it): they certainly didn't teach me English grammar at school, and I might otherwise not know  a thing about it.

Rita:
> 'English is the result of Norman men at arms trying to date Saxon barmaids, and no more legitimate than the other 
results." I THINK the quote is from L. Sprague deCamp but I can't remember.<

A friend once forwarded me a wonderful quote about the English language which went something like "English has not so much borrowed from other languages as pursued other languages up dark alleyways, clubbed them to death, and rifled through their pockets for new vocabulary".

Amy Z:
>> I like the house-elves story line (not allegory--I don't much like allegories and don't think JKR is writing them) *because* it goes into the complexity of political movements, instead of making them out to be simple Good Folks (Hermione) free Poor Downtrodden Folks (Elves) from Bad Folks (Malfoys, Crouch Sr.) despite Willfully Ignorant Folks (Ron, Hagrid) and Apathetic Folks (Harry).  People are frequently afraid of freedom; even the most oppressed are afraid to fly to troubles they know not of.  That doesn't mean they are happy the way they are or that the movement to liberate them is wrong--even when it is marred by self-righteousness and paternalism.  Or in this case, maternalism.<<

Yup, let's dispense with all this gross over-simplification.  Thanks JKR.  I agree with this, though I don't share Amy Z's allergy to allegory.  Mind you, I prefer allegories for general social phenomena (starting a radical political movement) rather than specific historical events (e.g. WW2).

On Krum:

Rowena:
> Nor for that matter would Hermione be attracted to an idiot who isn't even good looking, (she does
have a weakness for a pretty face as we see with Lockhart)<
David:
> Really, there wasn't much to it - just that Hermione would eventually lose interest in him over time.  But why can't he repeat her name properly after she says it?<

I don't think it's clear from GoF whether Hermione is attracted to Krum, or even that she has a "relationship" with him aside from attending the Ball with him: I thought it was more that she was thrilled by the novelty of the attention he gave her, which can evoke similar behaviour to attraction, especially at 14.  Hey, *I* was thrilled at 14 when the first boy ever showed interest in *me* (a girl not dissimilar to Hermione in lots of ways), and did all the blushing business, even though there was no relationship with the boy in question and I didn't find him attractive.  I agree that the novelty would probably wear off.

As for the name pronunciation bit, as many people have pointed out, a lot of intelligent people have a very bad ear for languages, and names are often particularly tricky.  I myself run a workshop (ran one in Hobart last Friday, and one in Melbourne Uni today) focussing exclusively on the structure and pronunciation of Asian names (I cover 10 countries in 3 hours!) which is a bestseller among Australian university admin staff, who often find themselves asking for a student's name 5 times without being able to repeat it back or know how it's spelt because the sound is so alien to them, or being able to tell which bit is the family name and which bit to address the student with, etc.etc.

Joywitch:
>> As an example, I suspect that if Gilderoy Lockhart were running for 
MoM, his campaign slogan would be something along the line of:

"Vote for Lockhart -- The Only Wizard with a Smile Dazzling Enough to 
Defeat the Dark Lord!"<<

LOL... how can we compete with this?

Kelly (re:F.L.I.R.T.I.A.C (Filch's Lover Is Regretting Transformation Into A Cat).
>> As much as I love this theory, you've not taken into account two things:
1.  Squibs can't do magic at all.
2.  Mandrake Juice restores those who are transformed.<<

Amy Z:
>> All we really know about Squibs is Ron's definition:  "Someone who was 
born into a wizarding family but hasn't got any magic powers."  I 
think that sounds quick-and-dirty enough to leave some wiggle room; 
maybe Squibs can have a smidgen of magic.  One reason I think so is 
the Kwikspell course.  Surely Muggles can't learn magic from a course? 
 Isn't it geared toward people who are just very bad at magic but not 
completely without powers?

Mandrake juice is a restorative for people who have been transfigured 
or cursed (CoS 6), but there still might be transformations that are 
irreversible even with a mandrake potion.<<

To Amy Z: my thoughts exactly!  Surely Kwikspell would be totally pointless unless Squibs had some rudiment of magic, and remember that any magic one has can spontaneously express itself in moments of great stress.  As for Mandrake juice, I don't think we have enough evidence to say that this is some kind of magical cure-all for any shape change problem.  After all, Madam Pomfrey didn't use Mandrake juice to fix Hermione's accidental cat transformation, which is, incidentally, an example of how a cat transformation spell gone wrong can be difficult to fix (it took several weeks to fix her in CoS).  Who's to say what might happen with an inept but desperate Squib?  The other comment I have is this: ssshCLOCK! (Tabouli removes her tongue from her cheek as she polishes her FLIRTIAC badge...)

Phew, I've caught up.

Tabouli.


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