Teacher vs. student help on tasks (WAS Re: Cheating in GoF...)

[cynthiaanncoe at home.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 27629

This post is way too interesting to let it just hang out there.  I 
don't have much time, but let's have a go anyway:

> Crouch says in the rules to Harry: "The other champions are not
> permitted to ask for or accept help of any kind from their teachers 
to
> complete the tasks in the tournament."
> 
> So if that is the case, why do Harry and Hermione practice in 
secret?
> ("...then returned to an empty classroom with Hermione, using the
> Invisibility Cloak to avoid teachers.")--GRANTED, this could be 
simply
> because they were out of their common room after hours, but not
> necessarily hiding the fact that Hermione was helping Harry with 
the task.
> 

I think that you've got the answer: they aren't supposed to be out 
after hours, and they're breaking curfew.  Also, I think Harry and 
Hermione have to be a bit discrete because they wouldn't want Krum, 
Fluer or Cedric to get any ideas by seeing what they are practicing.  
This doesn't apply to practice in the common room, because none of 
the other champions has access to it, but it does apply to other 
practice.


> BUT then why does Hermione later say (when Lee Jordan is examining 
the
> egg) "'He's supposed to work out the clue on his own,' Hermione said
> swiftly. 'It's in the tournament rules...'
> 'I was supposed to work out how to get past the dragon on my own 
too,'
> Harry muttered, so only Hermione could hear him, and she grinned
> rather guiltily." (POA 365)
> 
> There ARE NO rules against getting help from classmates, and Harry
> KNOWS it--so why do he and Hermione act like it is illegal?  Isn't 
it
> also inconsistant later on for the second and third task that he
> OPENLY seeks help from Ron & Hermione, even asking Madam Pomfrey in
> the library for magical devices of breathing underwater, and having
> Professor McGonagall allow them to use her room to practice hexes 
and
> spells?
> 

Ah, the meat of the question -- why do Harry and Hermione act guilty, 
and why does Hermione try to brush off Lee Jordan?

First, I think Harry's comment about previously receiving help refers 
to the steering he received from Moody and Hagrid about the dragons.  
(In my opinion, that was awfully close to cheating, but it wouldn't 
be grounds for disqualification because everyone else cheated too.)  
But why does Hermione suggest Lee can't help?  

I think it is because, deep down, Hermione doesn't wish to share the 
spotlight with Lee (not that she's a bossy braggart or anything 
<VBG>).  At this point, she has been Harry's most important friend 
and tutor, and she takes pleasure in helping him perform.  Perhaps 
Hermione doesn't want Lee to get any credit for contributing and horn 
in on the spotlight.  

We know it can't be against the rules for Harry to get help from 
students to solve the egg's clue because, following Hermione's 
admonition, Harry opens the egg anyway and listens to the opinions of 
his classmates.  Harry probably wouldn't cheat in front of a room 
full of people, even his classmates.  Hermione tends to interpret 
rules rather stringently, so I think she interpreted the "cheating" 
rule that way because that is how she normally tends to view things.  


> And I don't think one could argue that this is simply because 
Hermione
> didn't know it was illegal...she has no reason to believe it is (in
> fact she didn't even hear the rules, which included any fact about
> seeking outside help)--and Harry also confirmed this, even though
> Crouch said in the VERY beginning only TEACHER help was forbidden.
> 

I think Hermione's knowledge of the rules is from her research about 
the Tournament (recall that she knows that the head of each school is 
a judge without being told).  The rules may not have been explicit as 
Crouch's speech.

One more observation:  Crouch/Moody clearly believes students are 
allowed to get help from other students.  He gave the waterplants 
book to Neville expecting Harry to ask for help:  "I expected you to 
ask everyone and anyone you could for help".  That suggests that 
students can help students.  Harry could have even sought more help 
than he did; he is just too proud to do so.

So for these reasons, I think the cheating issues add up and aren't 
inconsistent.  To sum up:  

Teachers can't directly help.  Their help is limited to teaching 
their classes normally, and if the champion learns something helpful 
(like a Summoning Charm), so be it.

Teachers can facilitate by providing classrooms, etc.

House elves can help.

Ghosts (Moaning Myrtle) can help.

Friends can help.

Judges (Bagman) can't help, unless they really are secretly DEs who 
are working with Crouch/Moody to restore Voldemort to power and 
thereby stand to make a bundle on a bet. <bg>

Innocent convicted murders who happen to be the godfather of a 
champion can help.

Champions can help each other.

Cindy