No-ship but romance okay (short); Butterbeer (long)

[Hillman, Lee]

No: HPFGUIDX 28139

Hey, everyone!

Many thoughts on these issues to contribute this morning. First up: the
seeming incompatability of no-shipping fans and romance in HP.

Penny wrote:
> The position of some of the more militant no-shippers seems to be that the
romance 
> has no place at all in these books, and it's a point I don't get since JKR
clearly 
> thinks otherwise so far.
> 

I agree with Penny, here, in that JKR clearly wants to add some romantic
interest, if only as a source of humour. I also agree that there seem to be
a school of no-shippers who protest any hint of a romantic subplot, and this
confuses me. I don't quite understand why fellow crewers on the HMS
Switzerland seem to object to romance in the books altogether.

My personal position on no-shipping is not that I don't think romance
belongs in the books; in fact, I quite find it amusing. I think the romantic
elements of GoF are put there for comic relief, and I find Ron and
Hermione's antics both recognizable in their ages and frankly identifiably
in character. But I am not personally invested in one romantic choice over
another: I simply don't care who Harry, Ron, or Hermione wind up with. I
patently refuse to believe that the choices they make in the next book or
two will decide their fates forever. True, the impending war and the tense
atmosphere may tend to make them feel more intently their desires to be
"with" someone, or on the other hand, it may drive all thoughts of romance
out of their heads. Either way, it doesn't matter to me. Just tell me a
story, Auntie Jo!


On Butterbeer:

> Kanna Ophelia wrote:
> 
> Fiorgive me if this has already been hashed out, but I always assumed
> butterbeer was just a more exotic and delicious variety of gingerbeer,
> perhaps a reference to Diana Wynne Jones' butter pies. Is there any
> reason to assume it's alcoholic, especially as Harry is given it by a
> well-disposed teacher? Traditionally brewed gingerbeer is certainly
> warming (and cooling at the same time, ahh...) without any alcoholic
> content.
> 

Actually, a while ago someone came up with a real Renaissance recipe for
buttered beer...hang on, though, I think it wasn't on an HP list, but an SCA
one.

Here's a reprint of the recipe:
> > To make Buttered Beere.
> > Take three pintes of Beere, put five yolkes of Egges to it, straine them
> > together, and set it in a pewter pot to the fyre, and put to it halfe a
> > pound of Sugar, one penniworth of Nutmegs beaten, one penniworth of
Cloves
> > beaten, and a halfepenniworth of Ginger beaten, and when it is all in,
take
> > another pewter pot and brewe them together, and set it to the fire
againe,
> > and when it is readie to boyle, take it from the fire, and put a dish of
> > sweet butter into it, and brewe them together out of one pot into an
other.

Source: Good Huswifes Handmaide for the Kitchen (undated, apparently early
1600s), ed. by Stuart Peachey, Stuart Press, 1992.

And for folks' information, birch beer and root beer, if made strong enough,
are also *very slightly* alcoholic. Someone with great sensitivity to
alcohol can get a buzz from homemade root beer.

I always assumed butter beer had some small alcoholic content.

KannaOphelia continued:
> I guess I just like Remus too much to be comfortable with the idea of
> him giving booze to a child...
>

Hm. I have a few things to say about this comment. Forgive me if the
explanations wander a bit off topic. First of all, the alcoholic content in
butterbeer is probably not so great as to inebriate someone of Harry's age
and mass in one bottle. Harry says so himself in GoF. So it's not like Remus
is handing the kid a bottle of bourbon. 

Second, the European concept of kids and alcohol is nowhere near as rigidly
taboo as elsewhere. Speaking as an American, where alcohol is strictly
forbidden to under 21's, I know of many American homes in which parents do
not object to their kids trying alcohol under supervision--a taste of Dad's
wine at the dinner table, for example. I believe (no statistics at the
moment to back me up, but...) that kids who grow up being able to try
alcoholic beverages are less likely to drink excessive amounts when left to
their own devices. Rowling's experience with a more relaxed attitude to
alcohol may be showing through here.

Third, and I think most importantly, the concept that kids should not drink
any alcohol is a rather modern concept. Up until about the turn of the
century, water was not considered good to drink and milk was only for very
small children. My great-grandmother used to swear that the secret to
getting a fractious infant to sleep was to mix a small amount of brandy with
his milk. Before the mechanization of industry, child labour laws, and all
that fun modern stuff, "small beer" was an acceptable beverage for kids as
young as 8 or 9. Okay, because I know you're going to ask...I took this from
an essay on brewing written by an acquaintance of mine, Doug Brainard
(available at http://hbd.org/brewery/library/PeriodRen.html):

"Small ale was a term used for a very weak ale. Typically, after most of the
sugar had been dissolved out of a quantity of malt, a second batch of ale
was made using the used malt. Naturally the sugar available for the second,
"small" ale was substantially less than that of the original batch. A
reasonable estimate would be 2-3% alcohol. This ale was usually drunk
fresh."

In the period Doug's talking about, (mid-1600's), the difference between
"beer" and "ale" is that beer had hops; ales did not. Sugar, in case you
didn't know, is what makes the liquid ferment and creates alcohol content.

Small beers and small ales were fresh (not aged) and "for daily family use,"
according to Fred Hardy's essay on Medieval English Brewing (available at
http://hbd.org/brewery/library/MedievalFH.html). 

Others have commented extensively elsewhere that the wizarding world is more
medieval, if you will, than the Muggle world. Given their attitudes, their
superstitions, their education and apparent occupational systems, it's
reasonable to conclude that they also have a less modern attitude toward
alcohol. And there's no statute against selling it to kids, either: Ron buys
butterbeers in the 3 Broomsticks in PoA. 

So, Kanna, I'm sorry, but I think you're superimposing your own attitudes
about alcohol onto the situation, if you think less of Remus for giving
Harry a slightly alcoholic drink.

BTW, regarding the attitude of wizards about alcohol in general, there are
several instances where Dumbledore drinks, talks about drinking, and/or
encourages other adults to join him in drinking. Karkaroff also offers Krum
wine, though he denies it to another student, but IMO, he did that out of a
display of preferential treatment more than moral conviction.


Gwen