Nicolas Flamel (again)

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No: HPFGUIDX 25354

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., dorband at u... wrote:
> Neil writes:
> 
> > I've had another thought, one that may have been raised before:  
Can 
> we be sure that Nicolas Flamel was a wizard?  If he was just a 
Muggle 
> alchemist who worked with Dumbledore that might explain the fact 
that 
> Dumbledore has the reputation as the greatest wizard of modern 
times 
> and that Flamel sat on his hands while Dumbledore tackled 
Grindelwald. 
>  It would also explain why
> > Harry and the others could not find Flamel in any of the books on 
> wizardry in recent history; they assumed this was because he was 
600+ 
> years old, but it *may* have been because he wasn't a wizard.  
> Hermione finds a reference to the alchemist in a dusty old book, 
but 
> we know that alchemists existed in the Muggle world.  Perhaps the 
book 
> failed to note that he was a Muggle?
> > 
> > Am I going astray here?
> > **
> 
> 
> Neil,
> 
> Gosh, that's a great idea!  That *would* explain many things about 
> Flamel's apparent lack of concern with the wizarding world and the 
> wizarding world's apparent lack of sentiment for Flamel.  I like 
that 
> one alot.
> 
> In a similar vein...
> 
> Glenda and Danny Millgate wrote:
> OK, so I'm going to take this Dumbledore/Phoenix thing and put it 
> togehter with Flamel to really stretch. Actually I could well be 
> taking this into the realms of fanfic plot.
> 
>    Quick run down in case there is one person left who doesnt get 
the 
> life cycle of the phoenix...in standard mythology, a phoenix is 
born, 
> grows old, and instead of dying, spontaneously combusts (more or 
> less), and then is reborn from the ashes. In a sense 
immortal.       
>                      
>                  Lets say that Dumbledore is an Animagus, and he's 
a 
> phoenix. What if he is able to harness the power of the phoenix, 
and 
> as he gets very old in his human form, he transforms into an 
animagus 
> and goes through the transformation of the phoenix...and hence is 
> reborn young, but with his powers and knowledge intact?
>                  That would mean he could have been doing all sorts 
of 
> things for years. Of course, the hole in this story is that I guess 
> the wizarding world might have noticed if he suddenly turned up a 
> couple of hundred years younger...but I just really liked the idea. 
> Gives him lots of extra time to muck around with Flamel...anyone 
want 
> to bend this to fit? 
>                  Glenda
> 
> This dovetails nicely with the question of What alchemy project 
could 
> Dumbledore assist Flamel with since Flamel already possessed the 
Stone 
> for 400 years before Dumbledore.  As Neil points out above, if 
Flamel 
> were a muggle, perhaps he recognized that a wizard (Dumbledore) 
would 
> see things with a different "eye" - a magical eye.  Dumbledore 
> "improved" the Stone by adding the element of perpetual rebirth - 
to 
> avoid what Margaret Dean, in a related post, calls "stasis."  Her 
> relevant point:
> 
> 
> "Perhaps this tells us something about the practical effects of
> immortality?  At least of the type available by the use of the
> Philosopher's Stone.  What if it creates a kind of stasis . . .
> you don't grow old, but you don't "grow" in any other way,
> either?  Perhaps Flamel isn't cited along with Dumbledore for the
> achievements in Alchemy because they weren't his.  He may have
> provided Dumbledore with the background from his own researches,
> but Dumbledore was the one who had to forge ahead and come up
> with =new= ways to use this lore, because Flamel was incapable of
> new discoveries.
> Thoughts?
> --Margaret Dean"
> 
> Yes Margaret, I have thoughts.  The "stasis" that sets in during an 
> immortal lifetime (I'm thinking more of the physical wear-and-tear 
on 
> a physical body over an extended period of time - like forever) 
could 
> not be overcome by Flamel because he is a muggle and this is simply 
> the best that can be done - hey, no one else is immortal, so he did 
a 
> pretty darn good job.  But along comes Dumbledore to put a wizard's 
> twist on immortality - and avoid the problems of stasis.  Glenda 
hits 
> the nail on the head: "...he is able to harness the power of the 
> phoenix, and as he gets very old in his human form, he transforms 
into 
> an animagus and goes through the transformation of the 
phoenix...and 
> hence is reborn young, but with his powers and knowledge intact[.]"
> 
> This is what cements the relationship between Dumbledore and 
Flamel.  
> It also explains why Dumbledore seems to be "the better" of the 
two. I 
> like this whole scenario.
> 
> Neil, Margaret, Glenda and others, thanks for your wild and crazy 
> thoughts.  I love this stuff...
> 
> 
>  I need to think about this alot more (but right now I *really* 
have 
> to get some work done here at work <G>)
> 
> 
> Brian


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Since this is resurrecting such an old thread (from July), I copied 
both the original post and the key follow-up.

After reading them with great interest and some care, a thought 
crossed my mind -- a thought that is especially intriguing in terms 
of the title "Order of the Phoenix"

So -- if James (and Lily) both died of a clean curse, yet their house 
was found in ruins, could one (or both) have "been consumed" like a 
Phoenix, and come back as an infant child -- i.e. Harry?

(a late night Saturday conjecture, for sure.)

Justconnect

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