TR - DADA - Lost character - Trelawney - Bagman - CRAB - The in crowd

[Amy Z]

No: HPFGUIDX 25649

Hi all.  I'm catching up on a pile o' digests, or rather, failing to 
catch up on them.  I've tried to make sure that I'm not repeating what 
someone who's been around for the past few days has said, but some 
might be hiding in unlikely subject headings.

Mindy asked:

> Tom Riddle is just a memory, a phantom. I mean, what would have 
happened had he managed to
> kill Ginny and Harry? Would the 50-year-younger Tom Riddle have 
morphed
> then into Voldemort? Or would he have clambered up the pipe and 
resumed
> the old Tom Riddle form?

No, I don't think so.  He made the diary so that he could have a 
second shot at opening the Chamber, and he got it.  Then he learned 
from Ginny about what had happened in the intervening years, namely 
his defeat when he tried to kill baby Harry, so he switched gears and 
tried to kill Harry.  Bad move.  As for what he would have done had 
his diary-self succeeded in killing Harry, who knows?  But the diary 
TR is just that; he might hold on to an existence outside the diary, 
but there's no indication that he would morph into his 50-years-later 
real self.  

Fourfuries wrote:

>What good is DADA instruction if you can't recognize a Dark Wizard 
when you see one?

Dark Wizard Recognition would certainly seem to be something no DADA 
professor can teach.  Dumbledore is no slouch at Dark Wizard fighting, 
and he didn't spot Crouch; the real Moody considers Snape a Dark 
Wizard even though he isn't one (I'm assuming we're right in thinking 
he's not).  And then there were all those people who claimed to be 
under Imperius who were in fact loyal and willing DEs, like L. Malfoy.

Dark Mark or no Dark Mark, it seems that there is no easy 1-2-3 test 
that reveals someone's true feelings in the magical world any more 
than there is in the Muggle.  Short of Veritaserum (and I'm sure JKR 
could supply a reason why it isn't used at every single trial), the 
only other way to tell is via plain old human discernment.

Becky wrote:

> JKR said that she killed off the Weasley cousin and then developed
 the Rita Skeeter character more.  She said that she needed someone to
 act as a conduit for information to leave Hogwarts.  Why?  This is
 how parents find out that Hagrid is part giant.  Molly finds out that
 Hermione is breaking Harry's heart (suppossedly) and Molly finds out
 that Harry is competing.  Why were these things important enough that
 they had to be conveyed or am I missing something?

Aha--this is one of my favorite red flags.  What *was* so important 
that she had to rewrite huge chunks of the book to make sure there was 
a conduit to the outside world?  Which of Rita's exposes will prove to 
be really important?

I'm betting it's Harry's supposed insanity/untrustworthiness.  We've 
already seen Fudge, who was quite a Harry fan up to the end of PoA, be 
swayed by Rita's final article.  What might happen if lots of people 
in the wizarding world start thinking Harry Potter has a screw loose 
or is evil (a Parseltongue, you know), just when people need to unite 
to fight V?

Or maybe it will prove to be nothing at all and JKR just didn't want 
to sacrifice things like the social tension and Hagrid's exposure.  
But like you, I'm thinking there's something more important than that 
going on.

Cindy wrote re: Trelawney's predictions:

> Lavendar's rabbit -- True

This one really is not true.  Hermione is insensitive but correct:  
Lavender wasn't dreading this.  It's a classic case of making a 
prediction so vague that someone inclined to believe in this kind of 
thing will find something that fits the bill.  I've never had an 
October in which *something* unpleasant didn't happen to me.

By the same token, "the thing you are dreading will indeed come to 
pass" is like saying "you will have a change of luck regarding money." 
 It is bound to come true if you just wait a couple of weeks.  
However, it's fair enough to include it in a list of predictions.  
Maybe we should rate them by difficulty?  Voldemort will return and 
his servant will join him gets her major points because it not only 
comes true, but is very specific.

> The Grim, tea leaves -- True
> The Grim, crystal ball -- True

I'll give her a 50% on this one.  Harry hasn't been seeing a Grim.  
Luke is right, we don't know the rules of tea leaves, but what we do 
know about them indicates that they are symbolic.  Shouldn't a true 
tea leaves reading turn up symbols of danger (because of Peter--and 
the Grim doesn't count, because it is specifically a death omen) and 
protection (because of Sirius)?

> Hermione will leave class -- True

This prediction was more specific than most, but she can't take credit 
for predicting *Hermione's* departure.  She just said someone would 
leave.  

Speaking of predictions, great spotting of a possible red flag!:

> Finally, Harry had a dream (beginning of Ch. 9) in which Bagman 
> appears and delivers the following line:  "I give you . . .
> Potter!" 

Lisa, sign me up for C.R.A.B.  I totally agree that Ron's supposed 
susceptibility to Imperius has been way overplayed . . . not that it 
might not be a red flag.  But I am going to nitpick just a bit, 
because C.R.A.B. isn't the only organization I belong to <eg>.  Ron 
isn't limping because he's bruised; he is skipping on every other step 
because he hasn't shaken off Moody's command.  I think you may be 
thinking of Harry's bruised knees.

Lilith wrote:

> We know James and Sirius always hanged out together, and I get 
> the feeling they were the kind of kids who could get away with 
pretty 
> much everything because they're charming, witty and good-looking. 

Ah, this is why I am always pointing out that of the four, only Sirius 
is ever described as handsome.  If they were indeed so popular--and we 
don't know that they were, only that Snape perceived James that 
way--looks are not given as a reason why.  We know that James was an 
excellent Quidditch player adn that his team won the Cup at least 
once; we know that he and Sirius were troublemakers, and the way 
Rosmerta and co. remember them (and the comparison to F&G) suggests 
that they were pretty funny.  But the other thing we know about them 
for sure is that they were brilliant students--not what usually makes 
students popular among their peers.  Having been one of the "smart 
kids" distinctly on the outs with the in crowd, I prefer to think that 
MWPP weren't your stereotypical popular kids.  (Yes, I read HP to heal 
my psychological wounds.  Don't you? <g>)

One stereotype left over from high school that I have to surrender in 
the face of HP is Jocks are Scary Bad People.  Harry, sweet Harry, is 
undeniably a jock.

Amy Z
doing very well with her therapy, thank you

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   "I've got two Neptunes here," said Harry after a while, frowning 
 down at his piece of parchment, "that can't be right, can it?"
   "Aaaaah," said Ron, imitating Professor Trelawney's mystical
 whisper, "when two Neptunes appear in the sky, it is a sure sign
 that a midget in glasses is being born, Harry. . . ."
                                      -HP and the Goblet of Fire 
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