[HPforGrownups] Single best scene - Snape - Sirius - Marauders

[Monika Huebner]

No: HPFGUIDX 25661


> -----Original Message-----
> From: justanopinion2001 at hotmail.com

> I was wondering which single scene out of the Harry Potter series you 
> think is the best?  In other words, if you were trying to convince 
> someone (who has read the books) that the series is really something 
> special, which one scene would you direct them to?
> 
> The scene I found most intense and most moving is the Shrieking Shack 
> scene in PoA

I would agree with you here, the Shrieking Shack scene is my favorite
in the whole series, too. I would, however, only recommend it to
someone who is able to read it in English, because the German translation
is not only bad (as I thought until two weeks ago), but it has been
altered and somehow "censored". I can't think of another word.
There are whole parts missing of chapter 18, and some things have IMO 
been deliberately altered. I have compared the German translation to the
original (which I hadn't really done before) and I found that 
two scenes are completely missing from chapter 18. Interestingly the
missing parts are the scenes where Sirius loses it at the beginning
of the chapter and Lupin questioning himself about whether he
should have told Dumbledore about Sirius at the end. It looks as though the
German publisher thought it wasn't appropriate for young readers
to know that adults (in this case a soon-to-be-good-uncle and a
teacher) could have flaws. Snape doesn't look deranged in the
next chapter, either. I'm more and more reluctant to recommend
the books to anyone who can only read the translation.

The next best scene for me is Harry and Voldemort dueling on the
graveyard, this one always makes my hair stand up. It's even more
intense if I listen to it when read by Stephen Fry.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: *Lilith Morgana* [mailto:lilith_snape at hotmail.com]
> Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape -- Why so many fans?

> As for characterisation, the answer is very simple: Severus Snape is 
> the only character with enough depth to become obsessed about. In him 
> we have a mean, sarcastic, gloomy bastard who enjoys making fun of 
> his students in various offending ways. 

So, you have to be a mean, sarcastic, gloomy bastard to qualify for
an interesting character? Interesting. I certainly think Snape is
interesting because of all the back story we still don't know about
and which I am dying to learn (like most people here), but I
clearly object that he is the only character with enough depth to
become obsessed about. And I won't repeat what Allyse has
already said, but I can't believe *anyone* can find it amusing
how he treats his students.

> Sirius and Remus are both haunted by certain things- being a refugee 
> from Azkaban and lycantrophy aren't pieces of cakes- but these aren't 
> anything that deepens them since it's caused by external 
> circumstances.

So, traumatic experiences like this aren't likely to deepen a character?
I object here (of course, did anyone think I wouldn't? <g>). I can only
repeat that the motorbike isn't what I find attractive in Sirius, I
generally don't go for biker guys in leather, but what makes him
such an interesting character are clearly his problems. 

> Severus, on the other hand (awaits *le sigh* from 
> everyone reading this post) is haunted by his own actions, and the 
> guilt he feels is what makes him take a big step away from the other 
> one-dimensional characters. 

How about the guilt that Sirius feels, don't you think he is also
haunted by his own actions (switching Secret-Keepers with Peter,
leading to the Potters' death)? You are right that Snape is a survivor
because he found the strength to turn away from Voldemort, but
Sirius and Remus are survivors, too, each one of them in his own
way. Remus has at least as much self-control as Snape, I'd say
even more, since good old Sevvie surely would have lost it in
the Shrieking Shack if H/R/H wouldn't have knocked him out.
And Remus is haunted by what he *could* do each month to
people, I surely wouldn't want to be in his place. It doesn't matter
if he is responsible for what he is or not, because he can't escape
it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Smith [mailto:mediaphen at hotmail.com]

> I wonder if the Marauders were in fact representatives of the four houses?
> It would most certainly help their mischief-making if they had 
> knowledge of all areas of the castle, even every single house's 
> common room, and that would also help them making the MM. Having an 
> ally in each house would make them stronger as a group.

Hm, very interesting thought, but I still can't believe that they 
weren't all Gryffindors. We haven't seen any inter-house friendships
so far, everyone seems to find his/her friends in the same house,
and I don't see why this should have been different in earlier
generations. As for putting Sirius in Hufflepuff, I have to object
here, your honor. 8-) Really, he's not the type. We know since
Cedric that there are intelligent Hufflepuffs, but Sirius always struck
me as someone who didn't have to work hard to get good grades.
A notorious mischief maker wouldn't have much time to spend
with his books. And loyalty isn't his only predominant quality.

> Furthermore, to successfully survive _and_ escape from Azkaban, you 
> certainly need a lot of ambition and desire to really want it. Yes, 
> you could use brains, hard work and bravery to avoid twelve years 
> worth of mindsucking Dems, but what you really need is strong 
> will-power, which, IMO is deeply linked to ambition.

I don't think this is how he survived Azkaban, although I know very well
that a lot of people do think so. IMO this was not what got him going there.
What if he was so deep in depression that the dementors didn't have
anything to feed on? The question to ask is not why he survived 12 years 
and finally escaped from Azkaban, but what held him back for so long there.
If he really was as ambitious as you say, he would have left the
scene as soon as it would have been possible for him to pass through
the bars, but the fact is, he didn't. Because Azkaban is such a nice
place? Because it takes you twelve years in such a horrible place to
lose so much weight? I doubt it. It was guilt, self-loathing and depression 
that held him back there, and he needed a really strong trigger to 
pull himself together and flee. This has nothing to do with 
ambition in my opinion. See, it's kind of like the question why
the dinosaurs died out at the end of the Cretaceous, everyone has
the "obvious" answer to this: they were maladapted and nature
selected them to die out. But the real question to ask is not why
they died out but why they survived for about 180 million (!) years.
And this leads to the conclusion that things aren't as simple as
they seem to be at first sight and that the explanation is much
more complex than most people think. With Sirius, everyone seems to ask
the wrong question, too. Sorry, but I just couldn't resist. :)

Monika
who admits that she is completely gaga about Sirius and
can't find Snape in the least amusing.

------
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