HP and similarities to other books (LONG + re-intro)

[ms_petra_pan]

No: HPFGUIDX 37257

Forgive me if this thread is a bit "old" - it took a while to write 
(and research) the following.  :)

"wibble_flibble" <a.levin at f...> asked:

> Last weekend I read "The Secret of Platform Thirteen" 
> by Eva Ibbotson, and was quite overcome by the similarities 
> to Harry Potter and the Philosopher's stone, mostly in the 
> way of characters.
>
> At first I though "What a swizz, pinching her ideas from 
> Rowling" then I realised the book was written two years 
> before Harry Potter book 1. 
>
> So, has anyone else read this book, noticed the "coincidences" 
> and if so, what do you think of it.
>
> By the way, I found there were also a couple of very similar 
> ideas to Eoin Colfer's Artemis Fowl too.

That is EXACTLY what I had thought when I first read TSoP13.  But 
since my initial knee-jerk reaction and after some thoughts, I have 
realized that there's bound to be common ground between books written 
by human beings because such stories have the same source: humanity.  
As varied as the innumerable facets of mankind are, patterns exist in 
us and our lives.  Such patterns are often refer to as archetypes: 
character types / psychological functions and energies / patterns of 
lives and of stories that have been identified by psychologists and 
those who study narratives.

In general, those who charge JKR with a lack of originality most often 
cite her use of archetypes, if they don't out-and-out accuse her of 
nicking elements from other stories.  What they don't usually 
acknowledge is the fact that these other stories take their cues from 
real life, our shared culture, a source that JKR is also entitled to 
tap into and incidentally, is now a part of.

The use of archetypes is not only time-honored but also a most 
effective technique for writing with psychological truths that are 
universal to our species.  Literary genius is achieved with the novel 
and/or powerful use of these archetypes.  Whether JKR is a genius is 
much more interesting to discuss than surface similarities.

TSoP13 contains many of the same archetypes as the Harry Potter 
series, but then, you can say the same for most books within this 
genre.  I enjoyed Ibbotson's many works a great deal, but her 
understanding of these archetypes is not as deep as JKR's and she does 
not combine them to as great effect and complexity as JKR does.  
Therein lies the difference.  A more profound similarity between these 
two writers is their shared wacky sense of humor.

kscottmccormick noted:

> The moderator of two anti-Potter Yahoo groups has a little webpage 
> on similarities to other fantasy literature at 
> http://www.geocities.com/hp_originality/

I find this webpage interesting but alas, LAS (the author) doesn't 
actually offer in depth explanations of his/her "severely limited 
tolerance for 'similarities.'"  I would be curious to know what value 
LAS assigns to the ability to examining anew the familiar...and what 
value to the opposite, reliance on inventions that require much 
exposition before their thematic importance can be explored.  After 
all, works of the same genre explore the same themes...otherwise, they 
wouldn't belong to the same genre.  I am sad to report that LAS has 
not gone into such details.

LAS states: "Critics and fans alike hail Rowling's creativity in the 
creation of her fictional world. But how many know of its lack of 
original content? There are some striking similarities to other 
fantasy books — and some of the material is transplanted directly from 
legends and myths, without alteration or originality."

A discussion of how JKR differs and how she concurs with the earlier 
imaginings of these legends and myths would be of interest.  For 
example, a phoenix is a traditional symbol of regeneration and 
rebirth.  I find it telling that even Fawkes, JKR's own imagining of 
this bird, finds it hard to just get on with his own death, despite 
knowing full well that he WILL be reborn.  JKR's depiction of a 
procrastinating phoenix points out that even the knowledge of assured 
resurrection doesn't ease the pain of death.

LAS's laundry list of similarities is ultimately not satisfying as 
commentary.  S/he has gathered pairs of likenesses but offers no 
comparisons or analysis on the different authors' uses of similar 
motifs.  I have no idea what s/he thinks of such parallels...only that 
s/he noticed their existence.  This is too bad - I would have been 
more interested if LAS had identified the motifs and then discussed 
how these motifs have been treated by various authors, including JKR.

LAS's strong dissatisfaction with HP fans who have not found such 
"similarities" as disturbing as s/he does colors much of the 
assertions put forth on this webpage.  I agree that other authors 
besides JKR deserve attention too, but this is hardly a reason to 
issue thinly veiled accusation of "plagiarism" on JKR's part.  Rather 
than focusing on his/her "severely limited tolerance for 
'similarities,'" LAS's forum could have used the fact that JKR has 
piqued the interest of new readers to bring about the rebirth of older 
and still beloved works of this genre.  So could many others who are 
critical of JKR's success - how many of you now want to read Ibbotson?

Anyway, here are some other parallels not listed on this site that you 
can look for if you read TSoP13 and want to do your own compare and 
contrast:

•	Stubborn and willful pre-adolescent girls...and the boys who fall 
for them.
•	Mother figures named after flowers (yup, there's a Lily).
•	Schoolboys who actually hate holidays.
•	Lost boys who must be retrieved.
•	Magical places that repel ordinary people in quirky ways.
•	The use of "ludo."  (there's a connection to HP's Bagman)

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

Just for the heck of it, here's a great recap by Christopher Vogler 
(in his "The Writer's Journey") of Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey 
paradigm:

 1.	Heroes are introduced in the ORDINARY WORLD, where

 2.	they receive the CALL TO ADVENTURE.

 3.	They are RELUCTANT at first or REFUSE THE CALL, but

 4.	are encouraged by a MENTOR to

 5.	CROSS THE FIRST THRESHOLD and enter the Special World, where

 6.	they encounter TESTS, ALLIES AND ENEMIES.

 7.	They APPROACH THE INMOST CAVE, crossing a second threshold

 8.	where they endure the SUPREME ORDEAL.

 9.	They take possession of their REWARD and

10.	are pursued on THE ROAD BACK to the Ordinary World.

11.	They cross the third threshold, experience a RESURRECTION, 	and 
are transformed by the experience.

12.	They RETURN WITH THE ELIXIR, a boon or treasure to benefit 	the 
Ordinary World.

Archetypes: Hero, Mentor, Shapeshifter, Trickster, Herald, Allies, 
Shadow, Threshold Guardians...

See anything familiar?  If you get a chance to read C. Vogler's 
analysis of recent films using the above template, which is only one 
of the many permutations, you will see how archetypes offer a way for 
storytellers to examine anew the human condition by reinventing the 
familiar, over and over and over again.

Each of the HP books can also be analyzed individually by using the 
above - you will see how JKR reshuffles the elements in novel ways.  I 
am holding out the hope that when taken together, the seven books as a 
whole will also fit the character arc pattern that goes along with the 
above model...can't wait to see if they do.

Just my two dimes' worth,
Petra Pan, one of those Lost Girls you never seem to hear about

BTW, I'm not really new, just tired of my old and rather clunky 
moniker.  But really, I wasn't much more than a lurker.

Who am I: I hail from Los Angeles and i