Harry the Seer (was: Does Ron the Seer need glasses?)

[elfundeb at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 37391

In a message dated 4/3/2002 4:35:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
dicentra at xmission.com writes:

> > > > Dicentra:
> > > What about Harry?  When he and Ron are making up disasters for 
> > > their homework, Harry's first prediction is that he will be in 
> > > danger of being burned, and the second is that he'll lose 
> > > something valuable. Those are the first two tasks to a T, and this 
> > > is before the Goblet coughed up Harry's name. 

As I read this passage, Harry mentions losing something valuable in response 
to Ron's hesitation about his Tuesday prediction, and Ron writes it down.  So 
I don't think that's Harry's prediction for himself.

> 
> > > As for predicting the third task, it's hard to say because Harry 
> > > first wants to say he'll come out the worse in a fight, Ron says 
> > > he wanted to do that one, and so Harry says he'll lose a bet. I 
> > > suppose deciding to grab the trophy at the same time as Cedric was 
> > > a kind of bet, but that's a rather broad interpretation, if you 
> > > ask me. 
> 
> Barb:> 
> > No, he DOES lose a bet, but it's nothing to do with Cedric.  He 
> > loses a bet--but for someone else!  He loses a bet for Ludo Bagman!  
> 
> > Dicentra again:
> Ok, here's something to choke on. Go to the next page, where Harry
> finishes up his homework. The last thing he makes up is to predict his
> own death by decapitation. It's a funny line in the context of the
> scene (and it's undoubtedly funny to Harry), but given that the other
> things mentioned came true, what are we to think about the
> decapitation? Is that how Harry will die in the end?  Is it how he
> will NEARLY die in the end? (Of course, Pettigrew has to take his
> place because of the life-debt. Or at least that's the theory.) He
> certainly didn't escape decapitation at the end of GoF.
> 
My response:

I believe there may be a problem in acclaiming Harry (or Ron) as a seer based 
on predictions they made while faking their divination homework.  Reading 
Trelawney's assignment carefully, she asks for predictions for the next 
month.  And Harry and Ron adhere to this.  For example, Harry writes that "on 
Monday, I will be in danger of -- er -- burns."  But the First Task did not 
happen until November - two months later, and it took place on a Tuesday.  
The other events also did not happen within the timeframe covered by 
Trelawney's assignment.  In my view, these predictions are as accurate as 
Trelawney's prediction that the thing Lavender was dreading would happen on 
the 16th of October.  Something happened on the the 16th of October (Lavender 
was informed that Binky had died) but she admitted she wasn't dreading it.  
Of course, the degree to which their intentionally made-up predictions did 
come true is wonderfully ironic, and I bet JKR had great fun with this 
passage, even if she didn't know how we would dissect it.

If I were to judge whether any HP character was a "true" seer, I would limit 
my analysis to real attempts to predict the future, and prescient dreams and 
trances, and ignore offhand comments and deliberate fabrication like the 
astrology predictions.  IIRC, this leaves us with the teacup readings (Ron's 
correctly predicted Harry's Triwizard winnings; Harry's prediction of 
suffering, then happiness for Ron requires more time to tell), Harry's final 
exam (a correct prediction of Buckbeak's escape), Trelawney's trance (also 
correct).  I'm having trouble now remembering the extent to which Harry's 
dreams predict rather than report on current events, but I recall thinking 
how prescient his dreams were when reading the books.  Based on these 
episodes only, I think all three (Harry, Ron and Trelawney) have potential, 
though the evidence is thin and I'm suspicious that looking up symbols in a 
book, as Harry and Ron did with their teacup predictions, qualifies anyone as 
a seer, regardless of how correct the predictions are.  

So maybe Harry won't be decapitated after all.

Debbie, who is concerned that she remembers seemingly insignificant HP 
details, like the fact that the First Task took place on a Tuesday, without 
consulting the books


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