Ginny (SHIP)

[moongirlk]

No: HPFGUIDX 37678

There's some bait I just can't resist rising to, I guess...

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny Linsenmayer <pennylin at s...> wrote:
> Hi all --
> 
> Christine asked:
> 
> <<<I've noticed a lot of those who don't support H/G have made 
comments like this, and yet none of them have sufficiently explained 
_why_ they think it's too "sweet."<snip for length>>>>>
> 
> Oh, I'm all for romance being "sweet"!  Yes, definitely.  It's not 
>H/G that I think is too sweet; it's OBHWF (One Big Happy Weasley 
>Family).  Both R/H *and* H/G with the series ending with all the. 
>Weasleys, plus Harry & Hermione, sitting around a dinner table 
>happily celebrating the engagements of R/H and H/G -- that scenario 
>is what I find too sweet.  I think for most people OBHWF is either 
>smile-inducing or makes them want to gag.  I fall into the latter 
>category.  

As I think I might possibly be the person who instigated the debate 
where OBHWF was first coined by it's detractors, I can't help but  
mention that I absolutely despise that title and it's implications.  
I do like R/H and H/G, and I like the idea of them becoming literal 
family, but I've never imagined it as the kind of Hallmark commercial 
those who call it OBHWF seem to imagine.  Maybe I'm thinking Grimm 
while others are thinking Disney.  Sure, I want them to be happy, but 
even if we had the scenario you describe, there would likely be 
devastatingly empty seats at that dinner table, for example.  

By the time any relationships are committed to, I imagine they're all 
going to be older and hopefully wiser, but definitely more scarred.  
They'll have lost people they love and maybe in some cases done 
things they're not proud of.  They'll definitely have seen things 
that most people get to go through their lives ignorant of.  I want 
them to each have someone in the end who's been through things with 
them and who can understand.  

That's why I like R/H & H/G - not as a sweet happy little ending with 
chirping birds and cherubs, but because in the case of R/H, *it is my 
impression* that they are already going down that road, and 
charmingly at that, and more importantly because I anticipate them 
all going through some very trying times together, and often when 
you've been through hell with a group of people, those people are the 
only ones who will ever truly understand the emotional scars you 
carry.  I don't think that after what they'll all have to face, an 
outsider would ever truly fit into the mix, so if all four of them 
survive, I'd like to see them together, but at best I'd see it as 
bittersweet.  

People are probably going to tell me that Ginny is an outsider 
herself as she's not been through everything with the others, but my 
anwer is that the worst is yet to come, and from the end of GoF, we 
know the Weasley family is committed to being a part of Dumbledore's 
plans.  Ginny will be affected by what's to come, even if her family 
does continue to try and shelter her from it, and her experiences in 
CoS are bound to have some impact on her and possibly on the plot in 
the future.

> 
> I suppose, thinking out loud, that I wouldn't mind H/G as an 
ultimate outcome nearly as much if they had a mature adult 
relationship before committing to marriage.   Most H/H shippers, 
myself included, prefer to see the teenage characters be teenagers: 
date around, have fun (to the extent they can have fun during a War 
that is), grow up before committing to a romantic relationship.  Live 
a little in other words.  

I can't speak for what most H/G shippers think, but I know I agree 
with you completely here - I don't want them completely and 
committedly paired off by the story's end, but I would like to hear 
about it in the epilogue.

> 
> Someone (Finwitch?) mentioned that maybe Ron & Hermione might marry 
>in 6th or 7th year at Hogwarts.  I can't imagine JKR doing this.  
>Even if the age of consent is 17 & even if wizards do marry earlier 
>than muggles, one would hope (in my case one would hope fervently) 
>that they would at least complete their basic schooling before 
>taking on a marriage.  Yikes!  

Eeew, I don't like that idea either.  Eeeew!  Ron and Hermione 
married at Hogwarts?  Ick ick ick ick.  I mean, do they get their own 
dorm then or does Hermione just move into Ron's four-poster?  Is 
there married student housing?  Again I say Ick!

> I noted in that post that while JKR has done a really excellent but 
>subtle job of conveying Ron's burgeoning romantic interest in 
>Hermione, she has most definitely *not* done this with Ginny.  

Do you mean she hasn't done this with Harry?  She's definitely 
established that Ginny is smitten.  Or did you mean it wasn't subtle 
or well-done?  I agree it wasn't subtle, but I don't think it always 
has to be - it's certainly not always subtle in real life.  As for 
Harry, I imagine she hasn't conveyed his interest because at this 
point he doesn't have one.  Doesn't mean much either way about how 
he'll feel a year or six into the future, but I'm sure she'll lay the 
groundwork if that's where she's going.

>We get this slight sense about Ron's interest in Hermione in CoS, 
>which increases ever so slightly in POA & then when we get to the 
>Yule Ball of GoF, we're not at all shocked that Ron has an obvious 
>crush on Hermione (even if he himself is blind to it).  However, 
>with Ginny, JKR's not only not shown Harry ever have any thought 
>whatsoever about Ginny as a girl (other than being mildly annoyed 
>whenever anyone mentions her crush on him), she's also done nothing 
>to develop Ginny as a character.  I still maintain that this is a 
>possibly the biggest sign in my mind that H/G isn't likely to 
>happen.  If we'd had even slightly more development of Ginny as a 
>person, I'd be more open-minded about the possibility.  But, for now 
>I just question why JKR would give so little development to Ginny if 
>she did intend her to be the ultimate love-interest of the hero.  

I have a completely different take on Ginny's lack of development.  
It has been my experience that when an author holds back on a 
character that arguably *ought* to have more development, it's 
usually because they either want to keep the reader wondering about 
that character (which would seem to have worked somewhat in this 
case) or they're setting up something big for that character at a 
later time, or both.  In fact that's precisely why I started 
speculating about what role Ginny was going to play in the future - I 
smelled a set-up.  Granted that doesn't mean she's going to be the 
hero's love interest, but I'm convinced something's *up* with her.  
 
> Incidentally though, back to character development (or lack 
>thereof), I guess I'd note that it seems to me that if Rowling's 
>intent was simply to use the romance line as a minor "mood 
>lightener" in an otherwise dark period in the series, I wonder why 
>she would leave Hermione's romantic feelings so ambiguous.  <snip>> 

I can't think of much that's ever served only one purpose in JKR's 
writing so far.  I think the point is more that romance might not be 
pivotal to the A-plot.  Not that it won't involve conflict or that it 
will be strictly fluff, but that it might contribute to lightening 
the mood by not being a life-or-death thing for a change, but part of 
the normal process of growing up.  It's possible that the romantic 
inclinations of the characters may cause doom all around, but I feel 
like there's plenty of doom to go around already and certain aspects 
of their lives might serve to remind the reader that they're still 
normal adolescents for whom some aspects of life retain the usual 
level of pain and pleasure and humiliation and exhileration.  

> David said:
> > Poor Devin got a lot of flack for pairing Ginny with Harry a few 
weeks ago
> > because she is the only other character to have had a serious run-
in with
> > Voldemort.  I believe he is on to something, though.
> 
> Christine agreed:
> 
> <<<<*nods* As do I. Even if nothing romantic comes of it, there is 
the undeniable
> fact that Ginny has had an experience that gives her an 
understanding of Harry
> on a level that no one else has (at least, for the moment).>>>>>>
> 
Penny:
> I'm sorry, but I always wonder about this whenever it gets raised 
>because, well, Ginny was *unconscious* during the entire battle 
>between Harry & Riddle in the Chamber.  
>She says that the last thing she remembers before losing 
>consciousness was Riddle coming out of the diary.  So, I guess I'm 
>always perplexed about this so-called "bond" between them.  Yes, she 
>wrote in a diary & maintained correspondence with him over a period 
>of months.  But, when he materialized, she faded to 
>black.  :::shrugs::: 


I think that in large part this is a symbolic parallel.  I know 
that's what David was referring to in his post, at least, but even 
more literally, why did she fade to black?  From the way Riddle got 
stronger as she and Harry got weaker, it seems to me that she faded 
to black because he was using her... life force(? energy, power... 
something).  After months of what I'd call intimate interaction with 
Riddle's power, and having her life nearly sapped away by him, I'd 
think it qualifies as a significant contact.  After all, Harry can't 
fully remember his first contact with V either.

Regardless, she's the only one who's had *any* contact with him and 
lived besides Harry himself, presumably Dumbledore in PS/SS and the 
DEs.  It establishes a literary tie that I would expect to see 
addressed one way or another.  And since we know already that saving 
someone's life creates a bond, there's no question whether that 
incident created a bond between them (oops, almost typed that it 
created a bong between them, which would change things considerably), 
so I don't think it's a stretch to say that her being the only other 
one to have had contact with him adds to that, especially since they 
were both taken in by the diary.  It's possible that this bond will 
result in her dying for him (or any of a number of other scenarios) 
rather than the two of them falling in love, but knowing that one of 
them clearly has feelings for the other, and that a certain bond 
exists, it's not an illogical leap for people to anticipate a 
possible ship there and grow fond of the idea.


kimberly
who grows fond of ideas rather easily and who has been trailing along 
behind the Fourth Man's various vessels for some time in secret for 
fear that Faith will find out.