Crouch Jr. Imperio timeline, Weatherby, Lucius the DE

[grey_wolf_c]

No: HPFGUIDX 37835

Gwen wrote:
> At first, I thought Crouch may have already had Imperius cast before
> the Quidditch World Cup. <<The timeline is ambiguous>>, although it
> strongly suggests that Voldemort did not make contact until after the
> event. However, it may be possible that he *did* arrange to Imperius
> Barty Sr. before the cup, or else decided he needed to enlist Barty
> Jr. prior to the cup, and perhaps at that time, Crouch is suffering
> from the combinative effects of Imperius and a memory charm.

I don't think the time line is ambiguous at all. IIRC, during Cruch 
jr's Veritaserum-induced ramble to Harry et co, where he explains the 
whole plot, he tells Harry that he had, near the end of his 
imprisonment, been able to throw the Imperius off from time to time on 
his own, but he wasn't compleatly free of it until Wormtail and 
Voldemort paid him a visit, liberated him and Imperioed his father. In 
that same ramble he ALSO tells Harry that the Quidditch World Cup just 
happened to be one of those times when he was able to throw the curse 
off _on his own_ and the first thing he saw was Harry's wand (whithout 
knowing it was him). I haven't been too lucky lately with my 
interpretation of canon (see below), but I think that the ramble 
clearly shows that he wasn't liberated from the Imperio curse until 
AFTER the Quidditch World Cup, so Crouch Sr. should have been he's 
normal self previous to the match (any other interpretations of the 
timeline deduced from the ramble are welcomed).

> If that is so, then at no point in GoF do we see Crouch when he has
> not been the victim of dark spellwork. The confusion over
> Weasley/Weatherby, whether initially magically induced or not,
> however, I think clearly derives from a previous employee's name, and
> the blurring of past and present Crouch suffers under the curse.
> 
> Gwen

Of course, maybe the fact of having a condenmed DE hidden in his tent, 
who just *happened* to be his believed-dead son AND who's only being 
guarded by an elf AND with a plan to taking him out into the open was 
maybe *just* making him a little distracted.

Then again, I still believe my own theory: Crouch Sr. got Percy's name 
wrong the first time, and Percy was to awed at Crouch's authority to 
correct him the first few times (and afterwards, it would have been to 
violent: "Excuse, mr. Crouch, but, even though I've answered to 
"Whetherby" for the last four months, I'm called Weasley, like my 
father. I hope this doesn't make you look like a compleate idiot, Sir")

Betty, Porphyria et al. wrote:
> No, Grey Wolf, you don't remeber; JKR identifies Lucius Malfoy by 
> both name, surname and voice (liberal adaptation of their words)

OK, sorry, it must have fallen from my mind (and I didn't have the 
books handy at the time to look it over). Of course, you're rigth, JKR 
does identify very clearly LM in that chapter. Iwas wondenring, while I 
wrote it, why I was so sure that he was a DE if the proof was so 
circunstantial, but I just though it was my natural distrust for the 
RottenToTheBone!Malfoy family. Anyway, I beg for forgiveness, that was 
sloppy use of canon on my part. I'll try to do it better from now on.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf, the canon-based-theories defender (even if he DOES get canon 
wrong himself from time to time)