[HPforGrownups] Re: Weatherby

[Silvercat]

No: HPFGUIDX 37917

YES! Someone who agrees with me! Thank you!

gwendolyngrace wrote:
> It's in Chapter 28, "The Madness of Mr Crouch." Crouch is behaving
> very peculiarly, talking to trees and such, and he mentions Weatherby
> three times. The first two are probably in reference to Percy, because
> they also relate to the Triwizard Tournament:

Buuut... they could refer to previous Triwizard Tournaments (I really
wish I could look this up, but I don't have the book...)

gwendolyngrace wrote:
> However, the next time Crouch mentions the name Weatherby, it's in
> conjunction with a much older memory:
> 
<snip quote>
> 
> Crouch's next statement is to brag about Jr.'s 12 O.W.L.'s, and though
> it's not clearly indicated, I believe it to be a continuation of the
> remembered conversation, much as his second statement is a
> continuation of the list of instructions he gave Percy. So these
> clearly refer to a time before Crouch Jr.'s imprisonment.

Right.  But, just to play devil's advocate, he could be addressing Percy
and remembering the past.  You know, thinking something that already
happened is going to happen.... if that makes any sense.

gwendolyngrace continued:
> We learn later that Crouch has been fighting the Imperius Curse at
> least since the beginning of the year, and that his confusion was
> almost certainly a side effect of the mental energy of breaking the
> curse--the effort drives him mad.

Ummm, which Crouch? I assume you mean Sr. but if Jr. was fighting it...
What holds up the Imperius? 
The energy of the curser?  Trying to keep his son under control could
start to mix Sr. up.

Melody wrote:
> Barty also says in chapter 35 that he had been fighting the Imperius Curse 
> for some time, and was able to hold it off. Might this cause further strain 
> on Crouch Sr.?

After all, the magic and will of the Curse has to come from somewhere. 
One problem: they seem to imply that an Imperius from anyone will be
very strong and it's only the will of the cursee that affects it.  But
presumbably only strongwilled people would try it anyway.

gwendolyngrace continued:
> This is the same struggle going on in Crouch in chapter 17, when he
> refuses Dumbledore's offers to stay the night, and calls Percy
> "Weatherby" again.
> 
> I believe that "Weatherby" is actually the name of a *former*
> assistant of Crouch's, perhaps one who was a lot like Percy. I think
> it's this similarity that reminds Crouch of Weatherby when he thinks
> of Percy--and that lends to his confusion after the Curse is placed on
> him.

Thank you! Do we have enough people for an acronym yet? Ummm, anyway. 
The names are slightly similar to begin with, and if Crouch is confused,
either from being under the Curse *or* trying to hold it up on Jr. (or
both in sequence), that and a similarity to a former helper (either in
just being young, male, and his assistant, or similar characteristics)
could be enough to mix up the names.

gwendolyngrace wrote:
> At first, I thought Crouch may have already had Imperius cast before
> the Quidditch World Cup. The timeline is ambiguous, although it
> strongly suggests that Voldemort did not make contact until after the
> event. However, it may be possible that he *did* arrange to Imperius
> Barty Sr. before the cup, or else decided he needed to enlist Barty
> Jr. prior to the cup, and perhaps at that time, Crouch is suffering
> from the combinative effects of Imperius and a memory charm.

Yeah, adding a memory change wouldn't help, but I doubt that part...
Since we have Jr.'s statement, not Sr.'s.

Ana wrote:
> This sounds interesting... But if Crouch calling Percy "Weatherby" 
> during the cup indeed was an honest mistake, caused by magically 
> induced blurring of past and present, shouldn't somebody of his old 
> colleagues, say, Arthur Weasley, have noticed that Crouch was behaving 
> out of character?  Surely some remark like "That's not like old Barty, 
> confusing his current and former assistants" was in order.

Yeah I thought of that sort of thing.  If he was mixing up assistants
why didn't Mr. Weasley mention that he had a former Weatherby.  It could
be that Mr. Weasly doesn't know Crouch Sr. too terribly well (and never
met Weatherby).

Okay, basic summing up of the theory/timeline so far:

Barty Crouch Jr, who has been under the Imperius Curse for quite some
time (a few years), goes to the Quidditch World Championship under the
watch of his father and Winky.  He watches the match, manages to fight
off the curse (due to long experience with it, and weakening of his
father's will - also, how far away was Sr.? That might make a
difference) and sets off the Dark Mark.  Sr. calls Percy 'Weatherby'
from confusion and distraction - watching/worrying about Jr, keeping
control of the curse, tiredness, etc.

LV and Wormtail get in contact with him.  LV gives him his assignment -
replace Moody and infiltrate Hogwarts.  Sr. is Imperioed to keep from
warning anyone.

Moody is replaced.

Over the year the curse on Sr. is weakened (either from Jr's distance or
weakened will from being under Imperius so long).  Long exposure/age
makes him confused about time.

He escapes and tries to warn Dumbledore.  And is killed by his son.


So Sr.'s miscalling of Percy could originally have been confusion, but
at the end was the effect of the curses!
-- 
Silvercat / Phoenix - 

I seriously question the sanity of somebody who uses multiple
exclamation marks. 
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