time travel in PoA

[beccablue42]

No: HPFGUIDX 41973

Here are some of my thoughts on the consequences of time-
travel/turning: 

I see two main theories as to the consequences of traveling back in 
time (I'm sure true sci-fi fans know of many more!) First, we have 
the multiple-reality time shift, as seen in my favorite childhood 
movie, "Back to the Future." In this scenario, every action done in 
the past has consequences that *could* change the future, resulting 
in a new, different reality. This seems to be what McGonagall warns 
Hermione about, so that H is nervous about changing the past. The 
second option, however, is the one-reality time loop, as seen in "12 
Monkeys," where the time-traveler is unable to change the past, and 
his/her past actions only serve to bring about the future which is 
already real to him/her. This is best seen in Harry's patronus, where 
his action of sending the patronus does not *change* the future as he 
remembers it, but makes it possible. 

So which does JKR hold to (if indeed she is as geeky as I am and 
cares about having a consistant quantam theory)? It seems, given the 
example of Harry's patronus, that she holds to the later. H&H do not 
actually change the past, but were in a sense predestined to 
intervene on Beaky's behalf. Their first time through the scene, they 
only thought they heard Beaky's execution, but on their second trip 
they (and we) realized that it was Beaky's escape which caused 
Hagrid's howling. 

I therefore agree with Amandageist:
> >> Buckbeak was already saved because H&H *did* go back in time--
even if they
> >> don't know this yet. 

So, now as dicentra63 points out:
> The way Dumbledore acts immediately following the failed execution, 
it
> seems as if he knows that Harry and Hermione have freed Buckbeak:
> 

Here is my thought: doesn't Dumbledore say in the Mirror of Erised 
scene (PS/SS) that he can be invisible without an invisibility cloak? 
is it possible that he has some knowledge about H&H's time-turning or 
involvement in Beaky's escape without himself making the time jump? 
It just seems to me that he is-- well, not really omniscient, but 
just really, really wise, and beyond the limits of ammateur magic. He 
might even have an inkling that Beaky will play a part in Sirius' 
escape as well, and therefore knows that he won't be airborne for 
another 2 1/2 hours or so. He therefore feels confident in telling 
Macnair to "Search the skies." I'm reaching. 

Sirius Kase wrote: 
> I don't think Dumbly is
> omniscient but I do think he is quite powerful and quite likely 
able to time
> travel.

Me: 
And maybe he doesn't need a turner, just as he has no need for an 
invisibility cloak. hmmm. 

I do, however disagree with dicentra63:
> OR!
> 
> The first time through that time frame, Buckbeak *is* executed, 
which
> is why Dumbledore suggests that they save him when they go back.  So
> when Harry and Hermione see Dumbledore and his amused demeanor, is 
he
> aware of the fact that H&H have changed events?  Does he know in 
that
> moment that his future self sent them back in time?

(Me:) ... becasue as I said, this would be an inconsistant time-
travel theory, in which H&H's actions change the outcome of Beaky's 
execution/escape, but do *not* change the actions of Harry and his 
patronus. Still, JKR has the right to be inconsistant if she chooses--
 who am I to argue with genius?

I still have a couple of questions about the time-turner, though. 

1. How secret is this turner? Hermione gets it from McGonagall, and 
Dumbledore knows about it, too. She also receives permission from the 
MOM to use it, so one would assume that it is a reasonably well-known 
device within the ministry. Why, then, does Dumbledore stump Snape 
and the Ministry with his statement (paraphrased- no books at 
work): "unless you are suggesting that H&H have found a way to be in 
two places at once..." Why doesn't Snape jump all over that? Why does 
the Minister of Magic not recognize that the very girl he (or one of 
his lower staff members) gave a time-turner has just been acused 
of "being in two places at once," a function of time-travel? odd. 

2. Why didn't poor Hermione use the time-turner for extra homework 
time? Surely this would be allowed under the stipulation that she use 
the device for her studies! Why not catch some extra sleep while 
she's at it? Why couldn't she go back when she missed charms? Oh, 
wait, because she would be changing the time-line, and we have a one-
reality model... okay, I have to stop writing because I have finally 
given myself a headache. 

Becca
- wishing she had a time-turner for her next semester of Grad School