Arabella Figg and Polyjuice/Arthur and Molly's past

[corinthum]

No: HPFGUIDX 42787

Me earlier:

> I just thought of another bit of support for my "Arthur and Molly 
>are 
> not old crowd members" theory.  I was about to ask why we assume 
> Arabella is not actually old.  I always have simply so she would be 
> a 
> contemporary of Sirius, Lupin, James, and Lily.  Taking this into 
> consideration, it seems Dumbledore assembled a very young group to 
> fight Voldemort.  <<<<<<<<

HF:
 
> I think you're omitting someone who may end up being important -- 
>Mundungus Fletcher, who is described by Arthur himself as being "old 
>Mundungus Fletcher", is one of the 'old crowd.' The impression I got 
>from Dumbledore's words is that the old crowd isn't a highly, highly 
>exclusive group of people, but rather those who are the most 
>dedicated to stopping Voldemort. The people Dumbledore wants to 
>summon, furthermore, seem to be a group of outsiders (we know how 
>Lupin feels about the threat of Voldemort, but not Figg -- although 
>we have good conjectures -- or Fletcher), and thus untainted by 
>Ministry politicking.

Me now:

I can't remember where the "old Mundungus Fletcher" reference is at 
the moment; could you give me a book and chapter?  Since I don't have 
the quote in front of me, this may not be right.  But I believe 
Arthur mentioned referred to him in this manner after Mundingus 
attempted to curse him.  The use of "old" may therefore not be used 
to imply age, but rather antipathy.  Also remember that Mundungus 
would now be about 35 or 40 if we assume him to be in his early 
twenties during Voldemort's first reign.  Not very old, but then not 
young either (apologies to anyone of this age who takes offense).

It seems we also disagree about what the "old crowd" was.  I don't 
believe it was those most dedicated to the fight against Voldemort.  
I would assume this would include aurors and other professional dark 
arts fighters.  Sirius mentioned in GoF that during Voldemort's 
reign, no one knew who to trust.  Dumbledore does not seem the type 
to conduct a full assault, soldier-style.  Instead, I see him heading 
an intelligence unit.  Defeat the enemy from the inside.  However, he 
needs some extremely brave and trustworthy agents for this job.  
Unable to trust many of his colleagues/friends in the MoM, and unable 
to use aurors whom the Death Eaters would recognize, Dumbledore turns 
to Hogwarts.  From what we've seen of Hogwarts thus far, it seems 
that students are relatively isolated from the rest of the world.  
Not cut off by any means, but it would be difficult for Voldemort to 
reach students while they are at Hogwarts.  So Dumbledore chooses the 
best and the brightest from the recent graduating class, people he 
knows very well and is sure he can trust.  This small, secretive 
group is what he later refers to as the "old crowd".  


Me earlier:

> Why?  Perhaps he felt that with all the Imperius 
> curses going around, he couldn't trust anyone who had previous 
> experience.  This would include MoM employee Arthur.  Why assemble 
> a 
> group a young, just-graduated wizards, and then throw Arthur and 
> Molly into the mix?  They simply don't fit. <<<<<<<<<

HF:

> Are you referring to the first confrontation with Voldemort, or the 
>second? I'm sorry, but I'm not clear on that :-) I'm guessing you're 
>meaning that, in the first battle, Dumbledore needed the 'rookies'   
>(so to speak), while older wizards/witches -- eg McGonagall, Arthur -
>- could possibly be corrupted or influenced due to their being more 
>well-known, or being thought of as a more logical target for the 
>Dark side. But then, I could be completely off-base.

Me now:

Yes, I was referring to the first rise.  From what Sirius said, many 
MoM officials were influenced by the Imperius Curse.  Which should 
lead someone intelligent like Dumbledore to be very wary of anyone 
within the MoM.

HF:

> In GoF, Dumbledore doesn't seem to be setting up a full-frontal 
>assault against Voldemort, at least, not yet. He is, however, 
>explicit that Arthur needs to begin working right away in order to 
>convince people in the Ministry not to share Fudge's attitude. 

Me now:

I believe he is once again beginning an internal battle: determine 
who to trust within the MoM, inform officials of the true threat and 
gain their loyalty, gain the trust of the giants, possibly infiltrate 
the DE ranks (I don't believe Snape is doing this though; too 
obvious).  No full-frontal assault for Dumbledore, but when he needs 
them, he will have the support and information he needs (probably 
Book Seven-ish).

HF:

> Secondly, in an earlier post it was mentioned by someone, I can't 
>remember who...

Me now:

It was I.  :)

HF:

>that Molly's reactions to Sirius Black and her obvious, yet 
>suppressed, fear when Dumbledore asks if he can count on her, 
>indicate she and/or Arthur is/are not a member/s of the 'old crowd' 
>or a trusted cadre of Dumbledoreian soldiers. I honestly can't agree 
>with that, at least, as a piece of evidence. She has a very large 
>family and a *lot* to lose in the coming war, and I think it takes a 
>lot of courage to place herself and her children in danger. There, 
>too, is always the presence of the "mortal peril" location on the 
>Weasley family clock -- for me, that has unexpectedly dark overtones 
>in a descriptive passage that is otherwise light-hearted. Dumbledore 
>probably recognizes this, and wants to find a way to say he *knows* 
>she and Arthur will help him out without actually stating it as such.

Me now:

I think you misinterpreted my description of Molly's reaction.  I 
didn't say it implied a lack of courage.  It implied a lack of 
knowledge.  She knew Sirius Black as a murderer and nothing more.  I 
think she and Arthur will play a large and courageous role in the 
coming fight, simply not in the past one.

HF: 

>Maybe Molly and Arthur should sit down and tell a few war stories... 
>Bill would probably remember fairly well, as would Charlie. 

Me now:

Hmm, don't believe Arthur and Molly would have any inside info, but 
Bill...well, he could easily fit into the age group of my theoretical 
old crowd...must contemplate this possibility.

 
-Corinth