Fred and George: The Bullies You Do Know

[Nicole L.]

No: HPFGUIDX 43062

Abigail said [with some liberal snips on my part]: 

> I honestly believe that in most of these cases,
> JKR's reasoning doesn't go 
> any further than "this is funny."  This is something
> of a disservice to the 
> characters, making them the purveyors of cheap
> laughs and nothing more, 
> but let's face it, Fred and George aren't that
> important.  They have no 
> apparent role in the grand scheme of things.  Harry
> even tells them that in 
> the coming war, their job is going to be making
> people laugh and forget 
> about their troubles - a possible meta statement
> from JKR?  The argument 
> here seems to be with JKR's sense of humor, not her
> characterization.

I have to agree with this characterization of Fred and
George.  I admit that I am very fond of them but I do
not think them all that important to the story either.
 They are they just to make things funny and to
lighten the tone when necessary.  Besides that, JKR
often has a playful tone to her writing and I think
that this is reflected in Fred and George.  In the
context of childhood, I can see how these two are
hilarious.  As a bunch of adults looking at them, we
may see their behavior as immature and mean but I
don't think children read them the same way.  Let's
face it, how many of us have never regretted something
we did when we were young?  My best friend and I are
fond of looking back on our first year of college and
talking about what morons we were.  I mean no
disrespect to any of the younger members of the group,
it is simply that, as we age, we tend to look at our
past actions in a different light.  Time and
experience color of perception of things.  I think
this is the case with Fred and George.  As my dad
says, "Hindsight is 20/20."

> 
> So I find any attempt to read too much depth into
> the twins a bit futile 
> (with one possible exception to be mentioned later.)
>  However, even if 
> I were to try and take the twins' actions seriously,
> and judge them as I 
> would judge people acting in the real world, then I
> think the label "bullies" 
> is a bit extreme.  

My sentiments exactly.  I think it is important to
remember that these are children's novels telling the
story from the point of view of a child.  Naturally as
adults we will make our own interpretations and draw
our own conclusions but perhaps we are missing
something when we do this.  Children just don't think
as deeply as adults.  During my brief teaching stint,
I was astonished at just how egocentric and
short-sighted some teenagers could be (I taught high
school).  I think Fred and George are the perfect
example of this.  

> Fred and George are teasers and practiacly jokers. 
> Their actions are similar 
> to those of bullies, but their intentions aren't. 
> At their best, Fred and 
> George are being playful and high-spirited, and are
> unaware of the fact 
> that they might be causing pain to others.  At their
> worse, they are almost 
> unbearably callous.  Neither of these traits make
> them bullies, or even bad 
> people.  

I agree with this assessment as well.  I think Fred
and George are pretty thoughtless and that is why some
of their pranks appear to be malicious in nature.  I'm
not saying that the, "But I didn't mean it that way"
defense is an excuse for mean behavior but I think
it's an explanation.  My husband is the sort who loves
to tease people and sometimes he carries it too far. 
Whenever I have to talk to him about this, he is
genuinely bewildered that someone could have been
offended by his jests.  IMHO, Fred and George are the
exact same way.

> Not only do I find it hard to classify hexing Draco
> and his buddies as bullying 
> (which is, after all, mostly about fear and
> humiliation.  Having been knocked 
> out immediately, Draco and his cronies had no time
> to feel either.)  Not only do 
> I think that it is unfair to lay the blame for the
> hexing solely at the twins feet - 
> there were five people who performed the hexes, the
> twins are less then half 
> of them.  I also find it very hard to condemn Fred
> and George (and Harry and 
> Ron and Hermione) for reacting the way they did. 
> Was it wrong to hex Malfoy 
> and his buddies?  Yes.  Was it wrong to step over
> them and leave them in the hall?  
> Yes.  Was the behaviour of all *five* responsible
> parties all but inexcusable?  Hell 
> yes.  But is it impossible to understand?  Well...

I'm sorry, but I feel no sympathy for Malfoy at all. 
He is the classic example of someone who can dish it
but can't take it.  I don't see violence of any type
as the answer to anything but I do understand what
it's like to be motivated to do something out of rage.
 What Malfoy said was completely nasty and, IMO,
unforgiveable.  I don't necessarily think that Malfoy
is evil but I do believe that he is malevolent in the
sense that he is viciously, inexcuseably spiteful to
others for no good reason whatsoever.  He is a blatant
racist and a nasty coward who has to bring his two
bodyguards around with him because he is not
courageous enough to spew his vile nonsense and then
defend himself.  So, I can hardly cry for someone like
that when he gets his comeuppance.

> 
> In one sentence, Draco Malfoy manages to pick open a
> wound that is still 
> very fresh, to threaten Harry, the twins' friend,
> and insult Ron, their brother.  
> And the twins don't even like Draco, what with him
> being the son of the man 
> who nearly cause their sister's death and having
> been taught from a young 
> age that his entire family are up to no good (and it
> was you, Elkins, who 
> suggested that this indocrination might have much
> deeper roots than just 
> Arthur Weasly talking shop at home.)  Is it any
> wonder the twins have a severe 
> reaction?  That doesn't mean I find this reaction
> correct, but I am saying that for 
> 16 year-olds, it makes sense.

Again, I agree.  When I was about 19 or so, I had a
nasty breakup with a boyfriend who said some very
nasty things about me.  My 16-year-old brother's first
reaction was to gather up all his friends from his
high school football team and go beat the guy up. 
Now, my brother is *not* a violent person by *any*
means.  He is one of the nicest, most sensitive, most
caring people I know.  His reaction was provoked by
irrational anger and I know he suggested it in a flash
of rage.  And, anyway, I think that it's common for
boys and even men to react this way when they want to
protect their family.  Call it a primal urge, sort of
like a mother imperilling her own life to save that of
her child.  I did not like the idea of my brother
doing physical harm to another person but I did find
it extremely admirable that he was being so protective
of me.  I feel the same way about Fred and George in
this scene and I, too, suspect that there is something
between Lucius and Arthur that we don't know about,
which would add further fuel to the twins' fire.   

> 
> And as for sneering at Malfoy in PoA, that is taken
> completely out of 
> context.  The twins were trying to make Harry feel
> better by letting him 
> know that Malfoy, who had teased him for fainting
> when meeting the 
> dementors, wasn't exactly Captain Courageous on the
> train - which I 
> think is pretty sneer worthy.  They also qualify
> this statement by 
> immdiately saying that they were quite frightened
> themselves - how 
> many bullies would admit such a thing?  I think
> Malfoy was displaying 
> bully-like behaviour in this case, not the twins.

IMO, Malfoy is a bully of the worst sort.  While I
think Fred and George do things out of an overly
playful sense of good humor, Draco is motivated to
action by his own prejudices.  I know that he doesn't
exactly have a stellar example to look up to.  After
all, his father plants a very dangerous dark artifact
among the school things of a child (and even if he
didn't mean to target Ginny, it's just as bad that he
wanted to target Harry).  However, this does not
excuse Draco's behavior, in my eyes.  That boy has a
severly underdeveloped sense of what's right and
what's wrong.

> I also found the ton-tongue toffee scene unpleasant,
> and once again I 
> point to the double whammy of JKR's crude sense of
> humor and the twins' 
> general immaturity.  

This was a nasty passage.  I don't think they would
have targeted Dudley had Harry not told them how mean
Dudley was to him but it's no excuse for what they
did.  I chalk this up to one of those occassions where
the person that you like does something that you
really hate.  We're all given to this sort of behavior
from time to time. 

> Oh, come on, give the kids a break.  Look at Cedric
> - he's older than the twins, 
> he's handsome, smart, popular, good with the girls,
> a great Quidditch player, 
> and on top of all that he's nice, modest and
> friendly.  How could they not 
> hate him?  Can you honestly tell me that you've
> never met a person like that 
> and just hated them?

In my mind, there's no doubt that the twins are
wickedly jealous of Cedric and I agree with Abigail's
assessment.  It's not pretty, but human beings do have
a tendency toward dislike of a person who is a
perfectly wonderful human being simply because they
are jealous of that person.

> I have never seen the twins' behavious towards Percy
> as bullying or in any 
> way unbearable, and I certainly don't think he's in
> at all vulnerable.  They're 
> brothers, brothers pick on each other.  Just because
> Percy is too full of himself 
> to play the game doesn't mean Fred and George can't,
> and what do they do 
> to him that's so terrible, anyway?  They make fun of
> him for being proud of 
> being a prefect.  They tease him for his
> self-importance.  They play with his 
> head boy badge.  We never see this have any adverse
> affect on him - I think it 
> would take quite a bit more to deflate someone as
> stuck up as Percy, and 
> I think the twins know that too.

I admit to being baffled when people point out the
twins' constant teasing of Percy.  Who doesn't tease
their siblings in this manner?  I have tons of cousins
and they all treated their siblings this way.  In
fact, one of my female cousins still calls her sister,
"Trash," even though the love each other a lot and
spend tons of time together.  I also personally relate
to the twins' treatment of Percy.  My brother is one
of my best friends but when we were young, we were
*constantly* bickering and insulting one another.  We
also had physical fights, which is something I've
never seen occur between the twins and Percy.  I
really think that this is perfectly normal sibling
rivalry.

> I think this was meant to be a red herring.  We were
> supposed to notice 
> that Ginny was in a bad way, but to attribute it to
> the twins' pranks and 
> not to Riddle's effect on her.  In reality, I
> suspect that nothing that the 
> twins did to Ginny could be worse than what was
> already going on in her 
> own head.

Again, I agree.  I think that if Ginny had not been
going through what she was going through with the
whole Riddle affair, their teasing would not have
affected her at all.  She grew up with them and was
more than likely used to it.  Besides, I'm sure that
Ginny isn't a perfect little angel either.  I'm
perfectly willing to bet that she has done/said her
own share of cruel things to her brothers, and I'm not
just referring to the twins.  Girls can be tough.  I
know from personal experience.  :)

~Nicole, who would like to add that she has a great
deal of respect for Elkins' very well-informed and
educated opinions and is sorry to see that she is at
odds with Elkins on this issue.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com