Fred and George: The Bullies You Do Know

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 43098

Debbie wrote:


> You misunderstand me, Darrin.  I didn't mean that you needed 
an "IMO" with respect to Draco being a racist.  I suspect very few 
people could actively disagree with that one.  I think you needed the 
qualifier with respect to your 3rd statement: that comparing Draco to 
anyone, on any level apparently, requires the conclusion that the 
person being compared is also a racist.  
> 

First, I am very swamped right now, so I apologize if I give you post 
short-shrift. 

Fair enough. I see where I was mistaken. I think I put forth an 
argument to what you were asking lower down.

As an aside, I rarely put IMO because I think it is superfluous. I 
believe EVERYTHING we discuss on this board or any other, is mostly 
opinion. 





> 
> I said:> In any case, it makes no sense logically to say that 
comparing 
> anyone, on any level, to Draco means that you are saying that the 
> other person being compared is also a racist.  That makes no sense 
to 
> me.  Logically, this just doesn't work.>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> Darrin:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<No, the question was about what motivates Draco's actions 
versus what motivates Fred and George's pranks. Draco's actions are 
motivated by 
> his racism and his elitism -- he believes he is better than the 
> Weasley's because he has more money -- while the Twins' actions are 
> not.
> 
> My logic is sound. To try and ascribe the same motivations behind 
the 
> Twins' actions, you must first establish that they are doing it 
> because they feel their targets are inferior.
> 
> I say you can't do that.>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> Where your logic doesn't hold up, IMO, is that your original 
statement says that "to credibly compare anyone to Draco is to 
necessarily prove that person or persons is also racist."  Let's just 
say that I want to compare Hermione's treatment of Trelawney with 
Draco's treatment of Hagrid.  Must I establish that Hermione is or 
isn't a racist in order to make this comparison?  I think not.  
> 


No, but my argument does need more clarity, which I hope to provide.

Draco's treatment of Hagrid is motivated by elitism. He believes 
Hagrid, a servant in his eyes, is inferior to be a teacher. Later, he 
finds that Hagrid is not a pure wizard, which only adds to his 
contempt for Hagrid.

Hermione's treatment of Trelawney boils down to intellectual 
disagreements. Hermione simply doesn't believe Trelawney's schtick, 
but further believes -- as does her apparent idol McGonagall -- that 
Predictions are unreliable.

There is no evidence that Hermione dislikes Trelawney because of her 
wizarding status, or her former profession, or her last name, or the 
money in her vault at Gringotts, or anything else Draco holds dear. 
She simply believes Trelawney is a fraud.

In that sense, her feelings toward Trelawney are similar, perhaps 
identical, to Draco's feelings for Hagrid. Draco certainly believes 
Hagrid isn't fit to be a teacher, and does have other reasons behind 
the twin isms of elitism and racism -- not the least of which is that 
Draco got injured in class.

But before Hagrid even became a teacher, Draco saw him as inferior.

So, I submit that to credibly compare the negative actions and 
feelings of Draco to any other character, you must prove those 
character's motivation is racism or elitism. Or conversely, prove 
that in this instance, Draco's motivation is not racism or elitism.

Only then are we comparing apples to apples. 

This has actually been done. Weeks ago, after much gnashing, I 
conceded that many of Hagrid's actions, especially in the beginning, 
were motivated by racism.

I hated doing it, because I love Hagrid, but the evidence is truly 
there. 

> Darrin said: <<<<<<<<They don't seem to have problems getting 
dates, but 
> they aren't heartthrobs.>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> L.O.O.N. patrol: *Fred* got a date to the Yule Ball; we have no 
evidence that George went with a date at all.  We also have no 
evidence, either way, about whether the Twins are heartthrobs or 
not.  :--)  
> 

Well, it's personal preference. I know if I was 11 again, I'd 
consider Hermione a babe, but I like smart women. ;)

Darrin
-- Darrin's rule of partying. Let the other guys  go after the 
Lavender's of the world. While they crowd around her, the Hermione's 
are waiting.