Fred and George: The PREDATORS (NOT!)

[bboy_mn]

No: HPFGUIDX 43220

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "jferer" <jferer at y...> wrote:
> Cindy:
> "I think the twins are Bullies, and I think their flaws 
> give them depth..."
>
> "Why claim that some flaws are unimportant and some harm the 
> character causes is to be dismissed because the character is 
> supposed to be a flat "Toonish" caricature? I guess the most 
> that can be said is that some readers look for and appreciate 
> richness and depth in characters, even if the depth comes from 
> character flaws, and some readers are uncomfortable with that."
> 

jferer Comments:
> JKR is a genius at giving us characters who are not plaster saints, 
> characters who are complex; and I appreciate them very much. That 
> doesn't alter the fact Fred and George aren't bullies. 
> 
> Have you ever met a real bully? someone who is 'A person who is 
> habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker 
> people?' The kind that beat kids for their lunch money, steal their 
> clothes off their backs, and stick smaller kids' heads into
> unflushed toilets? 
> 
> Fred and George are not cruel. If you mean to cite the Canary 
> Creams incident with Neville, it was not cruel, since it didn't 
> hurt Neville and wasn't meant to. And it wasn't overbearing, 
> especially since everybody there knew the twins were up to 
> something.
> 
> The Ton Tongue Toffee incident wasn't that, either. The twins 
> were instruments of their own kind of justice against a true bully.
> Comparing the twins to Dudley, a stone Bully, shows better than 
> anything how they are not what Dudley is.
> 
> What the twins are is Tough. They play Beater. They walk (literally) 
> on Bullies they just zapped (for good reason, IMHO), and are willing 
> to stand up to a government Minister. They act the same towards 
> everyone, not just those weaker than themselves. They are not
> sadistic or cruel, however.  They must have gotten a gene from some
> ancestor who lived in Brooklyn.
> 
> If you think that's a flaw, then it is, but it's a flaw that will 
> serve the twins well in later life, especially as maturity and 
> judgment temper their impulses.

jferer

bboy_mn adds:
Now that is about the most direct, accurate, and to the point
assessment of the situation I've read so far.

Bullies are mean vicious people, the seek out the weak like predators,
and then they prey on them. And like predators, they are intent on
doing damage and harm. Once the capture their prey, the devour them
(figuratively, of course). 

Dudley beats the crap out of Harry and kicks him around for sport. I
don't see Fred and George beating anyone up for sport.

Not only does Dudley beat the crap out of Harry for sport, but he
forms gangs of kids to help him chase Harry down and beat the crap out
of him. I don't see Fred and George seeking people out like predators.

Dudley will have someone hold a little kids arms behind their back,
while Dudley beats the crap out of them. I can't see Fred and George
lurking around waiting for some little kid to come by so George can
hold his arms while Fred beats him up. That's just not happening.

Fred and George are not vicious, they do not seek people out with the
specific intent of hurting them, and I don't see then engaged in any
predator like activities. I don't think their idea of fun is sticking
a little kids heads in the toilet. In fact, they are more likely to
beat up the guy who stuck the little kids head in the toilet. Canary
Cream, Ton Tongue Toffee, trick wands, Yes; but head in the toilet,
No. If Fred and George had really been mean and/or bullies, they would
have found a way to beat the crap out of Dudley, not play a prank on him. 

They can be insensitive, they can be overbearing, and they can be
intimidating, but they don't do those things with the conscious intent
of oppressing other people. As far as intimidating, some younger kid
may encounter Fred and George and be very intimidated. But it is not
because Fred and George are trying to intimidate this person. They
have not sought this kid out with the intention of intimidating him.
But anyone who is big, loud, outgoing, and exuberant can be
unintentionally intimidating to anyone. Once the kid finds out who
Fred and George are, and see what type of people they are, and how
they interact with other people; I don't think most of them will
remain intimidated.

They are not vicious, mean spirited, or spiteful in their intent; all
of which, by the way, bullies, Draco, and Dudley are. 

The TTToffee incident was thought through with the typical low impulse
control, short sighted mentality that most teenage boys have. They
failed to look beyond the joke, beyond the TTToffee, and see the
bigger picture, to see the full range of possible consequences. That's
wrong, but it's not that unusual for most teenage boys.

The stepping on Draco incident, you will never convince me it was an
assault. It was an act of disrespect; it cause no harm, no pain, no
damage, and they didn't seek Draco out for the purpose of stepping on
him. If Draco had been awake, the only thing that would have been
bruised would have been his already over-inflated ego.

'Kicking' Draco out of the cabinet was not an assault; again, it was
an act of disrespect. They pushed him out of the compartment with
their feet because he wasn't worthy of the consideration or effort of
bending over and pushing him out with their hands. The kick was not,
by any interpretation that I can see, a blunt force trauma kick. They
push him out using their feet which is still technically a kick, but
it is NOT an assaultive kick; a kick by definition only. By the way,
that's is exactly what I would have done, and I'm about as far from a
bully as it is possible to get.

You can argue the point all you want, but the 'Fred and George are
bullies' faction, will never convince me that Fred and George are
intentionally vicious malicious mean spirited power-mad predators.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

bboy_mn