Twenty 20 Twenty - Always 20

[grey_wolf_c]

No: HPFGUIDX 43367

bboy_mn wrote:
> Let's examine some 20's (I'm working from memory here so cut me some
> slack.)
>
> 20 Brooms-
> 
> Apparently, most of you never went to a poor small town school. In an
> hour of 'Intro to Broom Flying', 40 to 60 kids could have had a go at
> the brooms. Twenty step up and try it, they step back, and 20 more
> step up to try it, etc.... Sixty kids in an hour, that's 20 minutes
> per group of 20. Twenty brooms does not equal 20 students.

Apparently Harry doesn't attend such school either. Hooch speaks to the 
students and says: "*Everyone* stand by a broomstick" (emphasis mine). 
So everyone had a broomstick to use inmediately, no need to wait. And a 
flying lesson is not something that you can leave unatended: Hooch had 
to be there continously, so there weren't other students someplace 
else. Besides, It is also mentioned that "the gryffindors" went to 
class and that "the Slyhterins" were already there. There is no mention 
of divided groups.

> 20 Ear Muffs in Herbology-
> 
> Isn't it a bit odd that 20 is just the right number for Slytherins
> plus Gryffindors, and it just the right number for Hufflepuffs plus
> Gryffindors? Seems like very exactly match class sizes. Apparently,
> no chance that there could be one more or less Hufflepuff than 
> Slytherin.

I can buy that the groups are around 10 in number (I could go up to 12 
or down to 7, maybe) but the fact is that there are 10 Gryffindors that 
we know of (although we cannot discount maybe one or two girls more), 
and that the sums of Gryffindor and Hufflepuff/Sltherin add up 20, by 
canon. Giving slack, maybe a little more or less: give or take 10%. 
However, for the 1000 figure to be correct you'd need 35 students per 
house and year. That's NOT something that you can brush of by saying 
"Harry only calculated the number of broomsticks/ear muffs, didn't 
really count them. There is a big difference between 20 and 70.
 
> So what is to say, there aren't another 20 Hufflepuff/Gryffindors in
> the next greenhouse. Pro.Sprout gets Harry & friends started with the
> Mandrakes, then goes to the next greenhouse and gets the next 20
> started, then goes back to check on the first 20.

Let's go to canon for this one: the mandrakes are in the greenhouse 
three, with the other dangerous plants, which implies tht other 
greenhouses *don't* have such dangerous especimens. Also, the class 
they needed earmuffs for, as you pointed out, involves a very dangerous 
plant that can kill instantly if you're not very careful. There is just 
no way Sprout is going to leave the students unsupervised while they 
handle the mandrakes (especially not in their first day). Besides, as 
jferer pointed out, if there is little canon that points towards the 
idea of multiple campuses, there is even less to point towards multiple 
groups idea.
 
> General Alternative Theory - Or classes could be broken into 
> sections-
> 
> Transfigurations (illustration only)
> 10:00am Gryffindor - 3rd yr - section A
> 11:00am Gryffindor - 3rd yr - section B
> 
> DADA
> 2:00pm Tuesday - Gryffindor - 3rd yr - section A
> 2:00pm Wednesday - Gryffindor - 3rd yr - section B
> 
> Someone tried to shoot down this theory, indirectly, by saying that
> teachers would have to teach something like 13 hours a day. I doubt
> that they can back that up with numbers. If Snape teaches 3 hours in
> the morning, and three hours in the afternoon, that's enough for 15
> double potions classes per week. Two double classes per grade with
> time left over. DADA to my knowledge is one class per week. So the
> DADA teacher could teach 30 classes a week (3hrs morning, 3hrs
> afternoon, 5 days, total 30hrs). 

Let's take a look at the maths, shall we? You suggest two groups for 
each house. That's 7*4*2 = 56 groups. Potions clases are double, so 
that's 28 groups for Snape to teach. 4 hours/week for each group, 112 
hours/week. You suggest 6 hour/day, that is, 30 hours/week. It doesn't 
stick. As things stand, he hardly has time for just two groups/year.

It gets worse, though: A week has 168 hours. If we consider that on 
Sundays there are no classes, and that sleep takes, let say 6 hours/day 
(36 hours), plus lets say 1 hour/day for eating, washing and other 
things, 6 hours/week: 66 hours less due to living time. That leaves 
Snape with a grand total of free time of -10 hors/week. It doesn't 
stick, either.


> Conclusion, I think JKR has seized on 20 as a not too big, not too
> small, just right number as a literary construct. I'm guessing if
> Harry goes to buy new glasses, he will have 20 styles to choose from.
> If he goes into a cafe, there will be 20 things on the menu. If he
> goes for a walk it will take about 20 minutes. If he goes into
> Fortescue's, he will be able to choose between 20 flavors of ice
> cream. If he walks into a room of people, it will have about 20
> people in it. Everything seems to be in units of 20.
> 
> Twenty is a nice easy middle of the road, not too big, not too small
> number that make for smooth easy writing. I don't think it's a
> statement of absolute quantity. Frequently, you will find that it is
> not 20 ear muffs but ABOUT 20 ear muffs which is just a quick glance
> guess by Harry.
> 
> That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
> 
> bboy_mn

About 20 is a good estimation. Nobody thinks there are "about" 20 when 
there are 70 earmuffs piled, which is what the 1000 figure implies. 
While it is true that it might be an aproximate number, it's doesn't 
allow that much of slack to explain the big difference

> So, a typical size of 1,000, in my book, could be anything from 600
> to 1400. Since it appear that even if there are a lot of unseen 
> students,Harry year and perhaps the school in general is on the lower
> end of the typical size. 

I think that 40% fluctuance is a bit too much for common demographics, 
but let's say its true. As I've said in a previous post (#43357), what 
can be deduced from the books is 280 students. Like in the number of 
earmuffs, even if we try to increase the number to try reconcile it 
with JKR's 1000 student statement, but we'd have to more than duplicate 
it to simply get close to your minimun number. That's too much slack to 
ask for, at least in my opinion.

> Let's not forget all those unused classrooms, and unused corridors
> which implies a whole floor of one wing. It appears to me that a
> significant portion of Hogwarts is unused. Which seems to also imply
> lower than typical enrollment.
> 
> That's my story and I'm STILL sticking to it.
> 
> bboy_mn

You can, of course, stick to it, but I don't think the theory really 
stands. Not that it's too important, since this is a typical case were 
we have to bend canon quite a bit to have it make sense.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf