Snape and various Infimary conversations in PoA

[Porphyria]

No: HPFGUIDX 43415

I'm combining a couple of replies to Eloise. I originally said:

> > but Snape, when given the opportunity, turns Sirius over to the MoM.
> > And I cannot think of any ulterior motive for him to do so; I think
> > Fudge would have been delighted to take delivery of a soul-sucked
> > Sirius, and Snape himself admits he has no idea why the Dementors
> > were retreating, so it's not like he saw a Patronus galloping around.

And Eloise replied:

> First of all, the Dementors had been put to flight and Snape may have had 
> no
> means of recalling them. I personally suspect they weren't coming back in 
> a
> hurry.

Yes, but he didn't make any attempt at all. He originally speaks of 
calling them over, but he doesn't actually try this. We know they aren't 
coming back, but he has no idea of what's going on. Apparently he just 
watches them go and carries on.

> Secondly, I think Snape may have seen the dramatic potential of bringing 
> in
> Sirius intact, as it were, of personally handing over his prisoner for
> punisment. Sure, Fudge would have been delighted to take delivery of a
> soul-sucked Sirius (that's a tongue-twister!), but it's not like anyone
> important (as far as he was concerned) witnessed the events leading up to 
> it,
> saw his part in it, even knew, beyond, his word, that he had been
> instrumental in bringing it about.

Well, as you point out yourself, bringing back an unconscious man looks an 
awful lot like bringing back a soul-sucked man (perhaps Snape has some 
means of telling the difference; I don't have an answer for that one). He'
s still personally handing over the prisoner to the law, pretty much the 
same presentation value. Point being, I don't see where Snape was going 
for dramatic potential here. As he later says to Fudge he wants Sirius to 
be soul-sucked right away, so I don't think he's expecting Sirius to give 
some sort of dramatic testimony beforehand. He certainly doesn't want 
Sirius as any kind of witness. Fudge himself implies that Harry will later 
serve as a witness if the Daily Prophet wants an interview, so they both 
imagine that base being covered by a far more prestigious person. 
Furthermore, his main conversation with Fudge always strikes me for its 
*lack* of dramatic potential, especially given Snape. You remark:

> Appearances, appearances! Snape was taking Sirius up to the castle and 
> would
> want to be seen in a good light - akin to the ever-so-reasonable way he 
> talks
> to Fudge about Harry. See how noble I am in victory, and all that. Sirius 
> had
> no reason to care what anyone thought of his behaviour, except possibly 
> for
> Harry and he may have realised there was no love lost there.
>
> The counter-argument is, of course, that Snape really was being noble in 
> what
> he thought was his victory - which would make subsequent events even 
> harder
> to bear. Phew!

Yeah, that is my counter-argument. Well, perhaps more 'reasonable' than 
'noble,' but along the same lines. What strikes me about Snape's first 
conversation with Fudge in the infirmary is Snape's honesty and 
matter-of-factness. [I remember others have characterized this 
conversation as 'oily,' but I just don't hear it that way.] You'd think he'
d be bragging about his prowess or at least buttering Fudge up in the hope 
of insuring that medal, but he's actually very modest. When Fudge asks him 
how he got the bump on the head, he immediately tells them it was the 
children, which you would think would be a little embarrassing for him to 
admit. Of course he quickly explains their relative innocence...:-) 
Likewise, when Fudge asks him if he knows why the Dementors were 
retreating, he concedes he has no idea, and his reply also indicates that 
he has admitted he was knocked out for a significant portion of the events.
  He's not quite self-effacing, but he's not wrenching it for all it's 
dramatic potential either. (Imagine the wild tale about heroically 
dispelling the Dementors that Lockhart would have fabricated were he in 
the same place.) Eerily, he's just being truthful.

What also strikes me about this conversation is that Snape does in fact 
use the audience with Fudge to bang on his very favorite drum about how 
Harry gets too many privileges. This, to me, sounds more flatly honest 
than either wise, ingratiating or politic. Everyone knows the politically 
correct attitude to express is one of fondness and support for Harry 
Potter (even Lucius recommends this). You would think if Snape were either 
*trying* to sound noble (i.e. faking it, hamming it up) or at least trying 
to cement his new chumminess with Fudge (i.e. sucking up) that he'd be 
smart enough to not complain about Harry, or at least stop the second 
Fudge says "we've all got a bit of a blind spot where he's concerned," but 
no, Snape goes right on arguing his case. I can't help but think Snape's 
"ever-so-reasonable" manner is not an act, but a calmer version of how he 
really feels. Especially since the words he expresses here do not clash 
with any of Snape's previous actions; on the contrary, of course we've 
known all along that Snape does want Harry reined in for his own 
protection, he's just usually more angry in the way he says it. So apart 
from the fact that Snape is being very polite with Fudge, nothing in the 
substance of what he actually says sounds to my ear calculated to make him 
appear in an ideal light.

While we're in the infirmary, Dumbledore later says to Snape:

> > "Unless you are suggesting that Harry and Hermione are able to be in
> > two places at once, I'm afraid I don't see any point in troubling
> > them further"

And Eloise interpreted:

> The way I understand it, this interpretation is premised on the fact that
> there are *not* a dozen magical ways in which HH could, or appear to be, 
> in
> two places at once. The idea originally came up in response to the 
> question
> of what on earth Dumbledore was up to, virtually giving the game away like
> that. If there were a number of other ways that they could have done it, 
> then
> surely Fudge would have been aware them too and Dumbledore would have been
> risking ringing alarm bells by raising the topic of bi-location.
>
> It was only safe for Dumbledore to give a coded warning to Snape to shut 
> up
> if he and he alone understood the message. If, in other words the way 
> which
> Snape knew they were able to be in two places at once was the only way - 
> and
> it was so unlikely and so impossible that a student would have access to 
> that
> way that Fudge would not suspect it.

Well, I agree that that remark is calculated to send a message to Snape 
that Fudge won't understand. Is that the main point you and Pippin were 
making? I think that this is probably true, and since Fudge is basically 
an idiot, I think there is plenty of wiggle room for Dumbledore to toss a 
hint at Snape without having anything click in Fudge's mind. Surely we can 
all agree that Snape is better at putting two and two together than Fudge!
  But I too am basing my interpretation on the assumption that Snape could 
figure something out that Fudge couldn't.

See, whether there are a dozen (what I originally suggested) or merely one 
way in which H&H could have rescued Sirius, I still say that Dumbledore is 
letting Snape know that Harry had his knowledge and approval in doing it. 
And while you can certainly interpret this as Dumbledore simply letting 
Snape know what the deal is, I feel that, in the context of Snape freaking 
out and Dumbledore acting like he's enjoying himself, eyes a-twinkle, it 
comes across IMO as virtually mocking. It's not open mockery in the sense 
that anyone else is supposed to understand, it's private mockery between 
just these two. Snape *can't* do anything about it now since Sirius has 
already disappeared, and since I don't actually think that Snape would 
want to get Dumbledore in trouble with the Ministry over it, he's left to 
do nothing but storm off. So Dumbledore's comment has the same effect as 
his previous one about his memory, it utterly stifles Snape which, while 
merciful for everyone else, is still rather cruel to Snape and a cavalier 
way to treat someone who will risk their life for you later on. But to 
repeat my point from before, this, ironically, does point to the degree of 
trust between them that they can clash to this extent and still be 
confident in each other when some dark force opposes both of them.

~Porphyria