Terrorism as an point of reference

[Melody]

No: HPFGUIDX 47747

First I do want to say, since I am in this MD Defense Team so my
opinion could be unfairly assumed, I like meta-thinking.  I find it a
lot of fun to play with really, but there are times when it is not a
valid and strong platform to place your arguments on.  It is fun to
poke at the theory with it, but I cannot expect to do much damage.
And the reason why is what I try to explain below.


CK first attempted to say:
>I find it curious that we're not supposed to use metathinking in
>dealing with Pip's MD theory, **snip** Now, unless someone is going
>to claim that Voldemort has been keeping an eye on mundane politics
>for the past however long and is basing his actions on what he
>learned there, this is an example of outside information being used
>to support MD...

Grey wrote:
>>Interestingly, your example is just that: *an* example. Pip used it
>>to help the readers get into position. She does not claim that
>>Voldemort is involved with the IRA, nor that their goals are
>>similar, nor any other similarity. Only that JKR might have drawn
>>from her own experience to create that war, instead of the
>>traditional armies style warfare.

CK wrote:
>Right. This is the first point made in support of the assumption
>that the V/P war is that type of war. MD is /founded/ on that
>assumption.


Um...no.  MD is not "found" on the assumption that D/V war is *based*
on the IRA terrorist wars.  MD is founded on the *fact* that those
type of wars do exist.

Pip used the example she did to give a type of visual aid as to how
the war between good/evil was happening so far in the books.  Her
evidence does not say that the war was a mirror or a parallel to the
IRA, but rather, a case where this type of war is happening.

Ok, and example from me.  If I were to explain my views that
Dumbledore's watch is like one of those blinking red light tracking
devices that are placed on people then I am *not* using meta-thinking.
 I am only trying to relate to the list how I see the ways
Dumbledore's watch is used.  I am just using muggle terms.

Ok, I am a going to have to drag out the definition of meta-thinking,
aren't I?

Meta-thinking: using RL (i.e. that this is a book written by an
author) or other authors' books to explain reasons, motives, and
characterizations of a particular book.  This includes, but is not
limited to:
1.  genre references (this book is a hero's epic so it must keep to
the style)
2.  comparisons between authors' style (so-and-so writes like this so
she could too)
3.  the need for the author to write a story or epic (thus not ending
the book at a certain time)
4.  the author *is* writing a story knowing where they are wanting to
"go" with the story and thus factors in foreshadowing and hints (Just
don't believe JKR is doing that with Dumbledore)
5.  this is the author's style (she bangs)

Meta-thinking is *not* comparing the book to life adventures but
making assertions about the book because it is a book.  That is RL in
this definition.

I hope that is a better reference for what meta-thinking is.  It
really is based more on opinion than text, which is why MD Defense
Team has a hard time with patience with it in relation to MD.  The
above points are more subjective than objective.  MD is an objective
theory.

Ok an example for you CK-
  If Pip was say, I believe that D/V is fighting a terrorist war
because their actions parallel the actions of the IRA and English
gov't, then that would be meta-thinking.  Her evidence would be split
between RL and the book.  She would be saying JKR is purposely
attempting to create an allegory of the events.  (Thanks Russ for that
one).

But since Pip says JKR is drawing from her life *knowledge* of events,
then Pip is only saying JKR is doing just that.  She is writing using
what she knows.  Just like JKR writes about boy's and girl's crushes
based on life knowledge.

Another example just came to mind-
If we said that Ginny's crush on Harry is similar to Marianne's crush
on Willoughby in Sense and Sensibility, and then theorize that Ginny
will not get Harry but will be the better for it because all Harry
cares about is money, then that is meta-thinking.  We are taking two
works of literature and trying to draw a parallel that yes, *could* be
there [not bloody likely though <g>] but is not as sturdy an argument
as an in-canon theory.  The meta-thinking would be in saying that JKR
wrote Ginny's crush to be a direct parallel, or the meta-thinking
would be that Ginny's crush would turn out that way because Marianne's
did and JKR likes Jane Austin.

So Pip's example of the IRA is just that - an example.  It is not
meant to be taken as a literal comparison made by JKR.  Just an
example to say JKR is *aware* firsthand that these type of wars exist.


Melody