TBAY: Crouch - The H Word (3 of 9)

[lucky_kari <lucky_kari@yahoo.ca>]

No: HPFGUIDX 47997

"Oh, come on, Eileen! You  know perfectly well that he was a
hypocrite.  You must do, surely.  I  mean, *everybody* knows that
about Crouch.  Charis knows that and Charis likes Crouch. Cindy knows
it. You must know it. Now why," says Elkins. "Why would you never have
adressed the issue of hypocricy in any of your Crouch apologetics?"

"Crouch wasn't a hypocrite!" says Eileen stolidy. "He use ill-advised
means, but his ends were good. He wanted to save the wizarding world
from Voldemort."

"Really, we'll see about that," says Elkins. "But I must confess, I'm
very interested in why you've never brought up the "H" word at all, in
relation to your dear Barty Crouch. Not even to defend him from it.
Why, again, would that be?"

"Elkins," says Eileen. "You've done me enough damage already on this
list. You've singled me out as the most bent, twisted warp person here
(after yourself.) You've had me confess to torturing my dolls. You
guessed - I don't know how you did it - that I'd dreamt about Crouch
sending me mercilessly to Azkaban. You told everyone I liked to be
hurt. You inspired me to narrate my regrettable short turn as a
victim-turned-bully. I'm the abnormal TBAYer with major issues in the
eyes of the list because of you, and now you want to know why I've
never once brought up the "H" word in relation to Crouch? Have a
little pity, woman."

"I only pity fictional characters," says Elkins grimly. "Why?

"Well then, that'd be because I'm the most frightful hypocrite
myself," says Eileen breezily. "Hypocricy really is my tragic flaw.
I've been acting every day of my life since I was very little. I mean,
half my aquaintances think my political opinions are far-right and the
other half think they're far left. And if you'd been brought up in the
conflicted political atmosphere I was, you'd see how you learn to do
that, to not mention certain things in some company, and to stress
them in others. To be, as C.S. Lewis put it, "loyal to no-one, and a
traitor to everyone." Eileen heaves a sigh of regret. "It's not
healthy living a double life, but I've done it for years in many
things. I was the good kid, the innocent, naive, uncorrupted child,
but in truth I knew more about any mature subject than any kid should.
I told you I read the Gulag Archipelago under my sheets as a kid. And
a lot of other stuff too. I believe passionately in fair play, and
never indulge in it. I don't think the means justify the end, but I've
always used unsavoury means to reach my ends. And my ends have been -
still are - very selfish."

Everyone looks shocked. 

"Yeah," says Eileen. "I'm not proud of it. I'll have to beat it, or
it'll beat me. But you can see why I've avoided the "H" word. Because
that's looking into the mirror, isn't it?"

"So," says Cindy. "It's not just Comfort-Hurt and Hurt-Comfort. You...
identify with Crouch?"

"Yes," says Eileen softly. 

"Then, let's talk about it," says Elkins. " Tough and Steely Livian
Crouch? It's his facade, his masquerade, his public face.  But it's
not really *him.*   And as for Crouch as Brutus...well!"

Eileen clenches the railings tightly.

"Because you see," says Elkins, "unlike Crouch, Brutus really *did*
have his sons put to death. What he did *not* do, was to sentence his
sons to death while the eyes of the public were on him, only then to
turn around and smuggle them out from under the axes of the lictors to
lock them away in his wine cellar one year later, when nobody was
watching him."  

Eileen begins to cough violently. "Are you all right?" asks Cindy. 

"It's just too funny," says Eileen, looking like she's going to die
from laughter. "We should rewrite Livy. We've already got the tragic
story of the Lombottommi, and now the re-worked Brutus story. What's
next: Peter Pettigrew was only imitating Mucius Scaevola? So, I admit.
Crouch is no Brutus. He's playing Brutus. Crouch probably read Livy
from an early age, as I did. I was a teenage Livian you know."

"Really?" asks Cindy.

"Oh yeah," says Eileen. "I desperately wanted to come across as tough
and steely then. You know, the "H" word. I even memorized large
portions of Macaulay's "Lays of Ancient Rome." "Heaven help him, quoth
Lars Porsena, and bring him safe to shore! For such a gallant feat of
arms has ne'er been seen before!" So, if Crouch was playing at being a
Livian, I know where he was coming from. I played at being a Livian
for several years."

Cindy shakes her head in disbelief.

"And well, being a Livian, believe it or not, has its advantages,"
says Eileen. "That's how I got people to stop bullying me. You don't
bully people who dramatically present themselves as tough and steely.
Of course, on the other hand, my short turn as the victim-turned-bully
was at the height of my Livian infatuation."

"ToughAndSteelyLivian!Crouch," says Elkins "Only serves to reinforce
and strengthen our appreciation of his moral *hypocricy.* JKR plays
much the same game with Livian Crouch as she does with Ends-Over-Means
Crouch, doesn't she? I think that JKR *cheats.*"

"Oh now you've done it, Elkins," says Eileen. "You just can't stop
attacking JKR."

"Just watch me," says Elkins. First she uses Crouch to encourage the
reader to consider the value of prioritizing the ends over the means.
 But then she stacks the deck against that position by revealing her
proponent of  ends-over-means to be, in the end, a self-interested
hypocrite."

"Not fair at all," says Eileen indignantly. "When you have a moral
dilemna like that, it's just not fair to solve it by walking around
it. It'd be like if we discovered at the end of "Les Miserables" that
Javert was actually a corrupt scumbag who was only chasing Valjean
because he'd get a promotion for it. And... Wait a second, I admit
Crouch is a hypocrite, but where do you get the complete self-interest?"

"Did you just call Crouch a corrupt scumbag?" asks Cindy.

"No!" snaps Eileen. 

"Very simple," says Elkins. "The question is whether Crouch is
self-sacrificing or self-serving?  Is he a hard-liner, or is he a
hypocrite? I think that he's a little bit of both, myself. But mainly
the latter."

"And we'll wait in vain for you to elaborate on the former," says
Eileen. I wrote, 
> > Nobility in tragedy also refers to virtue, however, and Crouch has
> > that as well going for him. Tragic heroes do terrible things and
> > Crouch does terrible things, but they have a lot of things going for
> > them as well. Crouch is on the good side. He fights against 
> > Voldemort and protects people against him. He does this at great 
> > risk to himself. 
You're going to rip me to shreds for that post, aren't you?"

"Not entirely," says Elkins. "You see, you did write out a nice
summary of his fatal flaw. Look.
> > I see here the tragic flaw asserting itself. The belief that people
> > should do as he disposed him, that he did not have the 
> > responsibility to treat them as people first and foremost. . . . 
> > Barty Crouch Sr. did not let love (any of the four loves) dictate 
> > his relationships with others. He used people and therein lies his 
> > downfall. 

"I agree.If I were to try to identify Crouch's hamartia, I would have
to cite his unwillingness or inability to recognize the existence of
other people as independent entities, and his corresponding disregard
for their volition and their autonomy."

"Elkins agreed with me!" says Eileen. "Cindy, did you hear that?"

"Wait for the 'but," says Cindy.

"But," says Elkins.

"Awww," says Eileen in a hurt tone.

"But if Eileen is right about Crouch's noble stature, we'd expect to
see Crouch as having good motives. As doing what he does to protect
the wizarding world from Dark Wizardry."

"That sounds reasonable," says Cindy appreciatively. 

"And he does!" cries Eileen. "He ordered very harsh measures against
Voldemort's supporters. Doesn't that sound like he was trying to save
the wizarding world from Dark Wizardry? "

"Crouch's acts of disregard for others," said Elkins bitterly, "always
seem to me to be taken to protect Crouch himself, or to bring him some
other form of personal advantage, satisfaction or benefit."

"Elkins!"

"Barty Crouch, the fanatical anti-Voldemort hardliner does not exist,"
says Elkins. "He's a figment of the wizarding populace's imagination,
of yours, as well. What sort of foolish young girl are you to be taken
in by his act?" 

"It's your type of person," says Eileen, "that lets the Death Eaters
win! Did you know that, Elkins?"

"Crouch isn't a Tragic Hero," says Elkins. "in order to fulfill the
criteria of the archetypical tragic hero, I think that a character
really needs to exhibit some degree of purity of motive, and I'm just
not seeing that in Crouch Sr."

"He fought the Death-Eaters to save the wizarding world," repeats
Eileen again. "How do you know his motives were impure? Been listening
to Barty Jr. recently?"

"We'll touch on that in our next post. But you have to emotionaly
detach yourself from your fixation on Barty Crouch Sr. as a tragic
hero," Elkins looks kindly at her. "A character who consistently falls
into error while acting in accordance with self-interest can certainly
be sympathetic. He can be likable.  He can inspire pathos.  He can even 
possess a kind of wild heroic grandeur, like some of Shakespeare's 
better villains do. I think that you can make a very strong case for
Crouch as a sympathetic shades-of-grey redeemed-in-death villain.
Think about it."

"But I want him as a tragic hero!" wails Eileen, stealing an
interested glance at
SympatheticShadesOfGreyRedeemedInDeathVillain!Crouch. "And I'll defend
Crouch the tragic hero to the death, if needs be!"

"You have a Gryffindor and a Slytherin persona at work in your life,
don't you?" asks Cindy.

"How did you guess?"

**********************************************************************
> 
> REFERENCES:
> 
> This post is continued from part two.  It is primarily a response
> to message #45402 ("Crouch Sr as Tragic Hero"), but also references 
> or quotes message numbers 37476 ("The CRAB CUSTARD Manifesto"), 
> 37574, 37769, 43447, and 45693.
> 
> Link to "The Lictors Bring to Brutus the Bodies of His Sons:"
> http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/david/brutus.jpg 
> 
> For further explanation of the acronyms and theories in this post, 
> visit Hypothetic Alley at
> http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/faq/ 
> and Inish Alley at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database?
> method=reportRows&tbl=13