Thoughts on Snape in PoA, & What Snape Knew Re-Post, was Snape and the Shrieking Shack

[Amanda Geist]

No: HPFGUIDX 48180

I am talking about Snape = this is extremely long.

pickle jimmy said:

> I was reading (again :-P) the shrieking shack chapter of PoA and was
> astounded at the length of time Snape was actually in the room and
> the amount of the conversation he over-heard before revealing himself.
>
> Lupin goes through the whole "Black trying to get Snape eaten by a
> Werewolf" story, how Snape was jealous of James, how James saved
> Snape's live *and* he also reveals that He and his friends created
> the Mauraders map (that earlier he had lied about to Snape when the
> map was found in Harry's possesion).
>
> So, now my point: Read the "Mooney, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs"
> chapter of PoA and put yourself in Snapes shoes. Then see how long
> you could have remained silent for before tearing of the invisibility
> cloak and yelling "Ha Haaa, I knew it!!!"

(you oldies *knew* this was coming, didn't you...?)

Snape did not hear the part about the Marauders creating the map. He does
hear Lupin identifying their aliases. However, he does not hear what their
animagus forms were.

Before, for the general amusement of the masses, I reproduce yet again my
only truly noteworthy post, I will briefly share my thoughts on Snape and
the aliases: I believe Snape is very, very familiar with the names Moony,
Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs. With an invisibility cloak and the Map at
their disposal, many unpleasant and amusing tricks could have been played on
Snape under those names. I do not, however, think that he knows who they
actually *were.* Hence his apparent total lack of suspicion of Lupin when he
consults him on the map. I get no feeling from Snape in that scene, that he
suspects that Lupin *was* one of those names; just Snape's usual
dislike/distrust of Lupin in general. Snape recognizes the names as
dangerous and/or Really Bad Influences for Harry to be messing with, at a
very bad time, but I think that's about it at that point in the story.

So yes, when Snape hears Lupin revealing that his old enemies were those
aliases, if it is true that things were done to him by the Marauders as I
explained, he would suddenly have had a fusion of old hatreds, as it were.
His hatred of the Marauders would suddenly have been augmented, and may help
to explain two things I find compelling about the Shrieking Shack scene:
(a) that Snape so completely loses it (I don't mean the way he does at the
end of PoA, shrieking; I mean he seems near-mad in his refusal to entertain
anyone's versions or thoughts, in his certainty; and
(b) that he completely dismisses, to the point of not even seeming to hear
or register, something Lupin says, which should have struck a chord in
Snape. Lupin's explanation of his failure to tell Dumbledore that his
friends had become animagi, because "Dumbledore's trust has meant
everything." I suspect that to Snape, as well, Dumbledore's trust has meant
everything, and here is another. [This non-reaction of Snape's, I suppose,
can actually be taken two ways--either that his fury makes him completely
miss this point, and this opportunity to understand and possibly partially
forgive Lupin (who he also hears was actually blameless in the Prank), OR he
does make this identification, recognizes it, and violently rejects it.]

It is also eminently possible that Snape, whether or not tricks were played
on him by the Marauders under their map aliases, recognizes at least one
name from the map when he reads it in his office, and not from school days:
Wormtail. We have seen subsequently that Voldemort refers to Pettigrew as
Wormtail. It may be a derogatory recent usage, mocking the years he spent as
a rat, but there is a possibility that Voldemort *always* called him by that
name--a handy alias for Pettigrew to use, as it was entirely unknown by any
save the other Marauders, who were unlikely to either share it or hear it
from DeathEaters.

I think it likely that DEs did not know each other's identities; so if Snape
had heard "Wormtail" referred to by Voldemort in the past, he likely still
not know it meant Pettigrew (for if he was the spy that warned the Potters,
he would then have warned them correctly). BUT to have Harry Potter, the boy
with the target on his back, to turn up in possession of a map clearly
associated with someone Snape knows to have been a DE would *definitely*
have made the alarm bells go off, prompting the call to Lupin, DADA person.

If *this* scenario is true, it would *also* help explain Snape's vehemence
in the Shack--because there stands Lupin beside Sirius Black, whom Snape
quite honestly believes to be a murderer and turncoat, and then Lupin
reveals their aliases, and one was *Wormtail*! What confirmation of Snape's
beliefs and fears! Another reason for Snape to hear nothing, listen to
nothing, for he has a quite reasonable, defensible, and complete explanation
in his head already. Wrong, yes, but quite reasonable.

Argh. There are so many possibilities feeding in to why Snape reacts the way
he does to what he hears, it's maddening.

Anyway. As promised/threatened, here's the repost of What Snape Knew and
When. Because you guys may want to refer to it, if this thread develops.

~Amanda

<theatrical voice booming from the heavens> It Is Time. </theatrical voice>
Begin old post 15233:

In the Shrieking Shack--
Sirius drags Ron in, Harry & Hermione follow. They find Ron & Sirius in
human form, and discover than Sirius is an animagus. Much arguing, Harry
attacks Sirius, Crookshanks protects Sirius, Lupin arrives. Lupin and
Sirius come to understanding of what happened with the Potters,
mystifying our Trio who think this means Lupin's bad, too. Hermione
reveals Lupin is a werewolf. Lupin gives wands back to the Trio, and
gets them to agree to listen to him and Sirius. Lupin reveals he helped
write the map, says he is Moony. Tells them that Scabbers is Peter
Pettigrew.

Sirius loses it and tries to attack Scabbers. Lupin restrains him and
gets him to agree to explain things to Harry first.

Lupin says the map showed Scabbers as Peter Pettigrew, that the map does
not lie. Hermione says Pettigrew isn't on the list of registered
Animagi.

****HERE is where the door creaks and Snape comes invisibly in, under
Harry's cloak. Now is the point where he starts hearing things. He has
heard none of what went on before. He has not heard that Scabbers is
supposed to be Pettigrew, or that Sirius is an animagus.

Snape now hears:

Lupin tells about contracting lycanthropy, that there was no cure, and
even the potion Snape's been making is a recent discovery. Before the
potion, he was uncontrollable every month as a wolf. But headmaster
Dumbledore let him in with precautions. The Shack and the Whomping
Willow were there to keep Lupin isolated during his wolf phases.

Lupin reveals that his great group of friends was Sirius, Peter, and
James, who figured out his secret and became animagi to be with him. It
took until their fifth year to learn how. He *does not* say what their
forms were--he mentions only that Peter was the smallest, so he
manipulated the Willow, and that James and Sirius were large animals,
able to keep his wolf form under control. He does reveal the other
Marauders' aliases--Padfoot, Wormtail, Prongs. Harry tries to ask what
sort of animal his father was, but is cut off by Hermione.

Lupin agrees with Hermione that even with friends who could control him,
it was still a really stupid thing to do and a betrayal of Dumbledore's
trust, and he still feels guilty. He reveals his inner struggle of the
past year, too, about whether to reveal Sirius's animagus ability to
Dumbledore, and that he has not. He still didn't want Dumbledore to know
how he had betrayed his trust then, because he doesn't want to damage
the trust that is there now. He *still* has not mentioned what form
Sirius takes. And here is where he mentions Snape, "In a way, Snape's
been right about me all along."

Sirius asks what Snape has to do with it, and Lupin says, "He's here,"
which made me, in the first reading, remember the door opening and
wonder if he really WAS, whether Lupin was "speaking the truth without
realizing it" (I forget the literary term). Lupin continues, though, and
we see he means at Hogwarts.

Lupin says Snape, as a fellow teacher, fought against Lupin's
appointment. And that Snape, as a fellow student, didn't like Lupin and
his friends. Especially James, and thought he was jealous of James'
Quidditch ability. Snape had seen Madam Pomfrey taking Lupin to the
Willow once, had wondered why, and Sirius had told Snape the way to get
past the Willow. Snape followed Lupin to find out what the deal was, but
James had gotten wind of the trick, went after Snape, and pulled him
back, but Snape had seen Lupin and knew the truth. Dumbledore forbade
him to tell anyone. Harry asks if that's why Snape dislikes Lupin,
because he thought Lupin was in on the joke?

****HERE is where Snape reveals himself to the others in the Shack. Thus
far, the only new thing he has heard is that his old enemies, whom we
now call the Marauders, were unregistered animagi, and that they wrote
the map which so nastily insulted him earlier.

Snape says he saw the activated map on Lupin's desk, when he went to
Lupin's office with the potion which Lupin forgot to take. He saw Lupin
on the map running along the passageway. He follows. The Shrieking Shack
is *not* on the Hogwarts grounds, so it would not appear on the map, so
Snape could not at this point have seen Peter Pettigrew's name on it.
Even if he'd waited to examine it closely, instead of chasing after
Lupin right then.

Lupin tries to get Snape to listen. Snape won't, ties and gags Lupin,
and holds Black at bay. Our Trio try to reason with Snape--they want to
hear the rest of the story--but it seems to irritate Snape that they
aren't even grateful at his saving them, and will not listen.

Black says he'll come quietly if Ron's rat is brought, too. Snape
threatens him with the dementors with no chance to speak, and threatens
Lupin, too. Harry blocks the door. Snape offers to *make* Harry move,
and simultaneiously, Harry, Hermione, and Ron all do the Expelliarmus
charm to disarm Snape. The combined charms knock Snape back against the
wall, injured and unconscious.

****THIS IS THE END of what Snape hears in the Shack. He misses
*entirely* the whole scene where Lupin and Sirius make Pettigrew reveal
himself, tell what happened, and pretty much confess and grovel. He
doesn't even hear that Sirius is Harry's godfather, so I don't know that
he knows that, either.

Snape does not regain consciousness after they all leave the Shack,
after Lupin transforms, after Sirius transforms into a dog to control
him, after Pettigrew re-transforms and escapes, and after Sirius goes
after him. He does not regain consciousness until after Harry's Patronus
dispels the dementors, because he tells Fudge he doesn't know what made
them leave.

He still hasn't seen Sirius animagus form, nor heard it named, nor any
of the other Marauder's forms. He still has not heard Pettigrew's name,
other than in the discussion of old school days. He has not heard anyone
say Scabbers is Pettigrew. The sum total of his new knowledge from the
whole Shrieking Shack incident is only that the Marauders had animagus
forms and that they wrote the map.

So, all personal animosity aside, Snape still honestly believes Black is
a dangerous, demented murderer to the end of PoA. However, his reaction
when suddenly faced with Sirius at the end of GoF is *not* to whip out
his wand and try to subdue him, pending arrest and dementors. It is
pure, simple hatred on a personal level.