How many students at Hogwarts? (yes, again) (was: How do they know?)

[ladygvorkosigan <kmapes@uclink.berkeley.edu>]

No: HPFGUIDX 48213

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Sasha HP <voldemort at t...> wrote:
>   Greetings!
> 
>   We know that there were 10 total Gryffindor students in
> Harry's year (prof. Lupin's Boggart lesson).
>   We know that there were 20 total Gryffindor and Slytherin
> students in Harry's year (Flying lesson).
>


I know this seems like a minor point, but it's my pet peeve so I had 
to chime in.  We do NOT know from the Boggart lesson that there are 
two extra students in Harry's year, despite what the fannon would 
have you believe otherwise.  In fact, an indepth analysis of the 
boggart scene specifically implies that there are, in fact, only the 
8 students whose names we know in Harry's year.  Here's what the 
scene says:

"'Seamus!' roared Professor Lupin.
Seamus darted part Parvati.
Crack! Where the mummy had been there was. . .a banshee. . .
'Riddikulus!' shouted Seamus.
The banshee made a rasping noise and clutched her throat; her voice 
was gone.
Crack! The banshee turned into a rat, which chased its tail in a 
circle, then- crack!- became a rattlesnake, wich slithered and 
writhed before - crack!- becoming a single, bloody eyeball.
'It's confused!' shouted Lupin. 'We're getting there! Dean!'"

The argument I've heard is that the boggart makes two unnamed 
transformations, implying that there are two extra people there. 
Leaving aside the fact that the Boggart actually transforms 
three times with no apparent person spurring it (to a rat, a 
rattlesnake, and an eyeball--presumably one could be Hermione's worst 
fear, although in that case it would change dramatically between now 
and the final exam), the structure of the scene implies nobody else 
was present.

 Based on the fact that the "crack!" occurs not when the student 
waves 
its wand but at the point when the Boggart actually changes (e.g. 
AFTER Seamus runs up to Parvati, not when she waves her wand), it's 
clear that the sound effect illustrates that the Boggart changes, not 
that the Riddikulus spell is being cast. Lupin says that the Boggart 
is getting confused and doesn't know what to change into. If there 
were two (or three) extra students there whose fears the Boggart was 
reflecting, it would not be getting confused, it would simply be 
changing to meet the worst fears of the extra students in the room. 
Thus, it seems likely that the Boggart, instead of reacting to 
individuals at this point, is simply picking up on generic scary 
images.

Additionally, the confusion comment clearly indicates that even if 
there were other people in the room, Lupin did not specifically 
direct them to face the Boggart and shout the Riddikulus curse. If 
this was the case, A. the Boggart definitely would have been 
reacting, not confused, B. we would have seen the rat, eyeball, etc. 
change into something funny (the way this is written it seems like 
too much to assume that that part of the scene is left out). Thus, 
were other students in the room, it's safe to say they didn't 
specifically tackle the Boggart. This means that at the end, when 
Lupin awards points to all those who tackled the Boggart he did so 
only to those he named (Seamus, Ron, Dean, Lavendar, and Parvati). 
Now, when Harry and Hermione were awarded points for correctly 
answering questions at the beginning, Harry was resentful becaue he 
thought Lupin was awarding him those points so he wouldn't feel left 
out. If there were other students in the class who weren't awarded 
any points at all, there would be no reason for Harry to think Lupin 
would do this. It seems clear that Hermione and Harry were the only 
ones who didn't face the Boggart.

Judging from this scene, at leat, it appears that not only are there 
not likely two additional Gryffindor girls, there's probably not any 
extra Gryffindor boys either. And I think the complete lack of any 
other indication in the text supports this. Why wouldn't Harry and 
Ron have at least considered them as possible dates for the Yule 
Ball, for example?   Would Rowling really have written two extra 
people into Gryffindor and demonstrated their presence only by a 
confusing, unlikely encounter with the Boggart?  I, for one, would 
view it as quite sloppy, especially if she tries to bring those 
characters in later.

Katie