[HPforGrownups] Snape and the Map (was: Re: Thoughts on PoA Snape & What ...

[eloiseherisson at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 48359

Pippin:
> 
> Eloise:
> > It also highlights what I regard as one of the more obvious of 
> JKR's 
> > plot manipulations.
> > I cannot, for the life of me work out why Snape didn't tell 
> > Dumbledore about the Map. I suppose that perhaps he didn't 
> realise  that Lupin would give it back to Harry. But why on earth 
> didn't he  simply pocket it when he found it in Lupin's office? And 
> how did he tell his side of the story to Dumbledore and Fudge 
> without mentioning  it? Why does Dumbledore still know nothing 
> about it until Crouch Jr  tells of it under interrogation?<<
> 
> Pippin:
> It sounds Flinty...but let's see. Crouch/Moody claims "Auror's 
> privilege," as his justification for searching another wizard's 
> office. Snape isn't an Auror, so maybe he'd rather not  tell 
> Dumbledore or Fudge that he entered Lupin's office without 
> permission. Snape doesn't say how he got into Lupin's office in 
> the first place. Did Lupin leave the door open, or did Snape break 
> in? Anyway, all Snape had to say is something like, "I was 
> bringing Lupin his potion when I saw him running across the 
> grounds. I followed him..." 

Eloise:
Exactly. He *was* taking Lupin his potion, so he had a reason to be in his 
office, although as you say, *how* he got into his office was another matter. 
But would he be likely to see Lupin running across the grounds on a journey 
between his dungeon and wherever Lupin's office is?

Pippin:

> 
> There are several reasons why Snape wouldn't want to take the 
> Map with him. (1) A good investigator doesn't disturb the 
> evidence. (2) Snape thinks the Map is a piece of Dark Magic that 
> might be dangerous to handle. (3)  He can't take anything away 
> without revealing that someone was there.
> 
> 

Eloise:
1) True. But he would have picked it up off the stairs, wouldn't he?
2) He's already handled it and the worse it did was insult him. I can 
understand that he doesn't want a repetition of that, though. ;-)
3) True. But I'm sure he could explain that easily enough. This is *Snape* 
we're talking about.

Pippin:
> 
> The Egg and The Eye chapter in GoF creates further difficulties 
> along this line. Why didn't Snape tell Dumbledore about the Map 
> then? But explaining to Dumbledore  about the Map would be 
> difficult without evidence. Snape's cried 'Wolf' far  too many 
> times. Worse, if Snape's in high dudgeon about Moody rumbling 
> his office, he's in no position to confess that, er, he did the same 
> thing to Lupin.  So Snape doesn't mention the Map at all. After all, 
> *he's* not the Defense Against the Dark Arts Master at the 
> school.

Eloise:
No, I know. But then Snape does emphasise how much Dumbledore trusts him. 
That's one of the reasons he's in high dudgeon about "Moody". But of course, 
Dumbledore trusts Remus. But that hasn't stopped Snape trying to explain his 
misgivings before, has it? Has he cried wolf? Yes, he's got things wrong, but 
usually he's been pretty near the truth, he's known when there has been 
something going on.
And he really wants Dumbledore to believe badly of Lupin, doesn't he? How 
could he resist? 
"I went to give Lupin his potion. He'd already left, leaving his door open in 
his haste. I found this piece of Dark magic on his desk. Worse than that, 
he's been colluding with Potter, encouraging *him* to use it to put himself 
in danger."
And, of course, he can get Harry into trouble at the same time.

Pippin:

> 
> JKR shows us how this works with  Snape's interrogation of 
> Harry about the missing potions ingredients. If Snape and Harry 
> had pooled their information, they would have realized what was 
> happening, but Harry doesn't want his friends to be punished for 
> burgling Snape's office. So he doesn't tell Snape what he knows, 
> and Snape, in turn, doesn't mention that the theft of the 
> boomslang skin was recent. Like a real spy, Crouch/Moody 
> benefits because his enemies don't share  their  information 
> with each other.

Eloise:
Oh yes, it works very well, particularly for the author! ;-)

Pippin:

> 
> Of course we should also come up with an explanation of why 
> neither Lupin nor Sirius tells Dumbledore about the map. Could 
> it be that there *is* some Dark Magic in it? Not enough to be 
> dangerous to Harry, but enough so that they would feel that 
> what Dumbledore doesn't know won't hurt him?

Eloise:
Well, I suppose there's something in Lupin's own explanation that the 
creators of the map would have thought it very funny to lead Harry astray and 
that James would have expected no less of his son. Arrested development, 
perhaps, or a lingering of that foolhardy attitude that let the three gad 
around in that dangerous way with a werewolf in tow.

Pippin:

> 
> Or did they tell Dumbledore about the Map, and is Dumbledore's 
> "What map is this?" question misleading, because Dumbledore 
> doesn't want Harry thinking that Lupin and Sirius won't keep his 
> confidences?

Eloise:
More conspiracy, what?

No, your explanations are more than reasonable, Pippin, but I still find it 
strange that if Dumbledore and Snape trust each other as much as we are led 
to believe, if Snape is truly concerned for Harry's safety, if Snape has ever 
been a spy on Dumbledore's behalf, then he couldn't find it within himself to 
tell Dumbledore about it.
The man was a DE, yet Dumbledore accepts him. This is small fry compared to 
that.

I mean, I could understand him keeping quiet about it *now*, because the 
consequences of his keeping quiet have been dire, a man's life lost, no less. 
But then? I still think it's out of character.

~Eloise





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