SHIP (with some FF) Re: H/H vs R/H

[Ebony <selah_1977@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 48690

Penny said: "His feelings at 14 are unlikely to affect what he 
 might think or want in his 20s or 30s."

Jodie replied:  "K, but I'm just speculating on what I think will 
happen in the world of the books.  By the end of book seven, they 
will all still only be seventeen, and whoever they happen to have 
been in love with when they were fourteen will still be relevant.  It 
would be absurdly longsighted to try to speculate now where any of 
them will be in their twenties or thirties.  It's likely they won't 
even be anywhere close to where they are at the end of book seven, 
forget now when they are just past book four."

Heidi's done an excellent job responding to this... but I think I'll 
add some additional thoughts in defense of those of us who indulge in 
post-Hogwarts thinking.

First of all, I think I personally like books and series where a 
childhood friendship becomes a romance.  I don't think that the bonds 
and attachments that some people make in childhood are superficial... 
in fact, because of the situation that is in canon (where you have a 
group of children who are on the verge of a struggle for the very 
existence of their world as they know it), I think that the Hogwarts 
kids will remain friends for a long, long time.  If HRH became 
friends because of a troll... can you only imagine what will happen 
in the last three books?  Not only will the Trio's friendship be 
solidified, I think some of the other kids will come into play.

After all, how in the world could they explain what happened to an 
outsider?  Certainly they might find some respite from it all in the 
companionship or in the arms of someone who didn't and couldn't 
know... but there would be always something that divides.

And as far as falling in love with someone when you're that young, 
and that being it for you, it's rare but in the realm of fiction, I 
think it can happen.  Without giving away the plot, I totally bought 
the ending of Phillip Pullman's HDM trilogy... and I cried for those 
adolescents just as much as I've cried for grown-up couples.  Because 
of the hell (literal and figurative!) they'd been through, I bought 
it hook, line, and sinker.  



I wrote a post at FictionAlley over a year ago that explained my 
PoV.  Additional comments are below the quote, demarcated by the 
stars.

***********************

I am a shipper because I am an incurable romantic. I can't imagine 
not being a shipper... I wanted Mulder and Scully to fall in love... 
I missed the romantic element in "A Few Good Men"... oh, I'm just a 
huge sap.

I began leaning H/H after PoA, was disappointed in GoF when I saw 
that it probably wouldn't happen... read Lori's PoU fanfic... and 
then was converted from "I prefer H/H" to an H/H die-hard shipper by 
Penny and (quite strangely) a group of my own students.  (Refer to 
the HP4GU archives.)

I like Hermione and Harry for each other after canon because in my 
mind they'd be such a balanced couple. Harry likes to have fun and is 
easygoing enough to handle Hermione's very slight (but worrisome!) 
bent towards obsessive-compulsive and her occasional 
singlemindedness. Hermione is nurturing and sensitive enough to 
understand the hole in Harry's psyche formed by his horrible 
childhood and tumultuous teenage years ducking Voldemort.

I think that if Harry survives canon, if he is to be in a 
relationship it absolutely *must* be with a woman who will either be 
a) content to stand in his shadow or b) shines brightly enough so 
that she isn't overshadowed. The shadow *will* be there, of course... 
because at 14 Harry's already going from celeb to icon. The only 
female contemporary we've met so far that would be able to handle 
this well IMO is Hermione, whose talents and willfullness place her 
firmly in the second category... I think Carole and Penny have done 
an excellent job showing why Ginny might not feel comfortable in 
category A.

I've thought about the possibility of Harry meeting an OC that's 
perfect for him sometime after canon (and plan to explore it 
fanfiction-wise very soon), but I still advocate H/H over this idea 
of the perfect OC (read: Mary Sue) for a few reasons. First, Harry is 
going to have some issues post-canon IMO that the OC woman in 
question would have to understand... I think that if Harry comes out 
of canon as a prisoner, a fugitive, or less than heroic, then it 
would be perfectly fine for an OC without the burden of knowing his 
past to come into his life and his heart. That is the case with ASA 
Cordelia, and with RJ Anderson's Maud Moody, both excellent OCs... 
their "outside" status makes the fact that they are loving a troubled 
man easier. In a slighter way, this is the case with Jana's OC Anya, 
whose man is stigmatized (even if only a bit) by his homosexual past. 

OTOH, if Harry comes out of canon "stained" in public opinion in any 
way, I could see potential problems for H/H...

But if Harry comes out of canon larger than life, you run into 
several problems placing him with an OC. Again, you have the problem 
of the shadow... sure, the woman might transcend all that and 
discover the man behind the legend. But Harry is just so darn private 
with all the details of his life... and truthfully, there are depths 
to Harry and bits of his character that he has no idea are there. 

Harry is NOT a terribly introspective person... and certainly not one 
to spill his guts to any but his nearest and dearest. I can see him 
perhaps getting with an OC, being perfectly romantic and sensual and 
sexual, but in the long run leaving her with this sense of being 
unfulfilled because it would be terribly difficult for him to give 
her his soul without there being a gradual build-up of trust. And 
subconsciously Harry feels that he already *has* people who fulfill 
this particular emotional need, and it's terribly painful for him to 
talk or even think about a whole lot of stuff anyway, so why can't 
they just have a nice light relationship without the scary "baring 
your soul" element? (This is how I perceived the Harry/Cho 
relationship in my own fanfiction's backstory.)

Another factor to consider is that Harry, Ron, and Hermione are 
extremely close in canon and have gotten more and more insular as a 
group with each book. At this point, for someone to break into the 
tight circle the Trio has formed, they'd have to really fill them in 
on a whole lot (for instance, not even Ginny at this point in canon 
knows that Sirius is not evil, or his whereabouts... although she may 
know by the post-GoF summer). I see the three-way bond that exists 
there as a classic blending of Lewis' perceptions of affection (love 
based on familiarity and proximity) and friendship (love based on a 
common interest, goal, or perspective). 

I do like the idea of all three ending up with others, actually, and 
like it a whole lot... but if current trends continue (which of 
course JKR can change on us in a moment!) I do feel that the 
significant other would feel a little uneasy about the fact that long 
before they arrived on the scene, the love of their life *had* not 
just casual friends, or very good friends, but friends who knew them 
inside out... who knew their souls... who were knit, as it were, to 
them completely. It would take a phenomenal character to be able to 
handle this without jealousy or paranoia.

I like the idea of Harry and Hermione together because I think in the 
long run they would really be best for each other, and not just when 
fighting evil, but also in times of peace and contentment. I don't 
think they're boring together. I do think it is totally plausible 
that they could become attracted to one another. I don't think that 
they're like brother and sister at all... not enough antagonism or 
scarce-resources competition there. 

Ron and Hermione remind me more of siblings, which may be why I am 
slightly squicked by what I see developing between them. 

**********************

Okay, so that was my justification for writing post-Hogwarts H/H.  

So what does this have to do with canon, where they're between 11 and 
17 years old?

I view the Harry Potter series as a continuous narrative, in which 
books 1-7 are to be ideally read as a continuum.  I think that this 
is closest to authorial intent, rather than an episodic read in which 
all 7 books are disconnected.

The view of canon from GoF is very different from our view at the end 
of, say, CoS.  That goes without saying.  At the end of CoS, I don't 
think I was so firm about my H/H ship preference... I could have 
definitely made a vague Harry/Ginny case, I think.  At the end of 
CoS, there was no Cho, no Viktor, and Sirius Black had received only 
a brief mention in PS/SS.

At the end of CoS, we didn't know who Professor Lupin was, or what 
the death of Lily and James *sounded like*.  We had no idea of what 
the Marauder's Map was, or what the Unforgivable Curses were.  We 
didn't know about the rest of the wizarding world, of Beauxbatons and 
Durmstrang, of Karkaroff or Maxime.  We didn't know how poorly 
regarded giants and werewolves really were, or that hippogriffs and 
Time-Turners would be a key to freedom, or that Hermione's bushy hair 
and buck teeth wouldn't always be bushy and bucked.

We just didn't know.

And when it comes to what will happen in the next three books, we 
still don't know.  

Perhaps that is why I've engaged in ship debate over the past 2.5 
years.  As a writer myself, it makes my teeth grind when someone 
tries to call a story halfway through.  I mean, imagine if someone 
had tried to call the romances halfway through Little Women, at the 
end of the first book, right before Meg's wedding.  How many readers 
could have predicted Jo/Friedrich, and Laurie/Amy?

I am not saying that H/H will happen.  I am just not certain that we 
can say for certain that R/H or H/G or some combination of both is 
inevitable.

What I do think is that Harry/Cho and Viktor/Hermione will have to be 
dealt with at the opening of OotP.  What we in fandom take for 
granted (the dissolution of those early romances) hasn't been certain 
in canon.

I also hope that JKR, if she intends R/H, will show Hermione 
reciprocating Ron's interest.  That is the disconnect for me in 
R/H... and if it happens without much evidence of reciprocation on 
Hermione's part, I'll predict trouble.

I happen to Mod a board at FictionAlley which specifically deals with 
Ron/Hermione vs. Harry/Hermione debate.  It's not for the faint at 
heart... people really hold their beliefs about Trio-shipping 
strongly, and it's a really challenging place to keep civil.  Yet I 
think that the discourse is interesting, and shouldn't be silenced.

Here's a link to the general Trio forums:
http://www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?
s=&forumid=51

The Deathmarch thread is *always* on the first page.  Always.

But after all is said and done, we'll just have to wait on new 
canon.  Nothing else will answer any of the questions that we have 
about shipping, or for that matter, anything else.

--Ebony AKA AngieJ