Did Dumbledore know that Fake Moody = Crouch?

[annemehr <annemehr@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 48701

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, jodel at a... wrote:
> Rehan asks;
> 
> << The question, then, that still remains is how exactly did 
Dumbledore come 
> up with the idea of it being Crouch so quickly?  What could he have 
known 
> beforehand that would lead him to this assumption?  Please, try to 
answer 
> this, as I am totally confuzzled!   >>
> 
> The answer, I believe, is in the chapter "The Madness of Mr Crouch".
> 
> When Harry runs off to fetch Dumbledore, one of the things he tells 
D is that 
> Crouch mentioned his son. Now, Harry doesn't say -- at that point -- 
that he 
> had only mentioned him to say that he had gotten 12 OWLs while his 
wits were 
> wandering in some fugue state.
<snip>

Actually, Crouch *did* mention his son while he was fighting Imperious 
and aware of what he was saying:

"Don't...leave...me!" he whispered, his eyes bulging again.  
"I...escaped...must warn...must tell...see Dumbldore...my fault...all 
my fault...Bertha...dead...all my fault...my son...my fault...tell 
Dumbledore...Harry Potter...the Dark Lord...stronger...Harry 
Potter..." 

Man, that was hard to type!

And, a bit more to the point, as far as what Dumbledore knows is 
concerned, is what Harry said to him outside his office:

"Said he wants to warn you...said he's done something terrible...he 
mentioned his son...and Bertha Jorkins...and -- and 
Voldemort...something about Voldemort getting stronger...."

So Dumbledore did get the true message that Crouch Sr. was concerned 
about his son.  Harry did indeed make the distinction between Crouch's 
two ways of speaking, and told D about what he said when he seemed to 
know where he was.  Interestingly, he left out the word "dead" as 
applied to Bertha, and the fact that his own name was mentioned twice! 

But back to the issue at hand:

<snip>

 
> Dumbledore's quite sharp enough to put this last piece of 
information 
> together with the fact that, somehow, whatever is going on has 
probably got 
> some association with the Crouch household -- which is more than 
ample reason 
> to call in the Crouch House Elf to see if she can recognize whoever 
it is, if 
> he cannot.
> 
> -JOdel

Yes, I am thinking that D has been doing much thinking about the 
Crouch incident since it happened, but reaching no firm conclusions.  
Then, the minute Fake!Moody removed Harry from Dumbledore's presence 
outside the maze, D knew he was not Moody.  As he called Snape and 
McGonnegal and rushed into the castle, things must have clicked with 
him:  Moody is not really Moody.  He is an enemy agent of Voldemort's. 
 Crouch mentioned his son.  Even though he may not have known for 
sure, as JOdel says, he knows it has something to do with Crouch's 
household, and so summons Winky.  Why, though, I wonder?  So she can 
help calm him?  Because she deserves to know what's happened?  So she 
can help explain?  My guess is the sencond one -- so that she can see 
for herself what has happened to her old family, to give her some 
chance of finally disconnecting herself from them and finding a new 
place for herself in the world, and some peace.  The amazing thing is 
how Dumbledore would think to do this at that time (not that he 
wouldn't show just as much concern for the well-being of an elf as for 
a human, just that he had the presence of mind to think of her just 
after he'd nearly lost Harry).

Annemehr