Small FF reference; SHIP: H/H vs R/H

[Penny Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 48762

Hi --

Jodie said:

> K, but I'm just speculating on what I think will happen in the 
> world of the books.  By the end of book seven, they will all still 
> only be seventeen, and whoever they happen to have been in love with 
> when they were fourteen will still be relevant.

Heidi already mentioned JKR's plans for an epilogue, but in any case, I'd just add that I would wager most 17 yr olds probably can't even remember who they fancied at age 14.  Romances at age 14 will be a thing of the long ago past to our 17-yr old characters I'd guess.

Before I turn to the true shipping, let me comment on Susanne's comment:

<<<It seems some people like some fanfiction characterizations so much,
that when the "real" characters (JKR's) are different, the
readers somehow feel betrayed.>>>>>

Actually, I don't think that *has* happened so very much as yet, because there's been no new canon to challenge fanfic assumptions.  I think it almost certainly *will* happen though.  The true explosion in HP fanfic occurred after GoF.

Okay, so SHIPS and whether Harry and Hermione have fun and whether or not Ron is well-suited to Hermione:

Ebony speculated:

<<<<I think that if Harry survives canon, if he is to be in a 
relationship it absolutely *must* be with a woman who will either be 
a) content to stand in his shadow or b) shines brightly enough so 
that she isn't overshadowed.>>>>>

I would add to that: and the woman *Harry* is most likely to prefer is (b) ...... because Harry is quite uncomfortable with his shadow and his fame.  I think Harry would want to be involved with someone who was accomplished in her own right.  I don't think he would *want* a romantic partner who was retiring and in his shadow, etc.

Pippin said:

<<<I'm not saying H/H can't happen. But if it does, I'd like to see 
Harry accept that his fame and power are an essential part of 
what would make him attractive to Hermione as a partner.>>>>>

I don't know why you assume that Hermione would only be interested in him because of his fame and power.  I think it's the reverse: he would be interested in *her* because she could hold her own with his fame/power.  If he didn't have that fame or power or was somehow "stained" as it were, I don't think it would make a bit of difference to Hermione.  I think *she* quite clearly respects her friend Harry, not the Boy Who Lived.  A big "me too" to what Jim Ferer wrote on this topic. 

Pippin:

<<<<But do you think Hermione would want to live as a Muggle if that 
was the only way she could be with him, or is her life as a witch 
more important to her? May she be spared such a choice! But I 
haven't yet heard from anyone who thinks Hermione would be 
the ideal match for Harry under such circumstances. Yet why not, 
if love is all that matters?>>>>>>>>>

I think she'd make just as successful and assertive a muggle as witch, so yes, I'd still plump for H/H under that scenario, Pippin.  I don't think her life as a witch is the key to Hermione, who is above all a very compassionate and sensitive person.  

I agree with every word that Jim Ferer has written about why the R/H ship just doesn't work, IMO.  I don't think Ron's ego and self-esteem can handle a relationship with Hermione over the short-term.  Now whether he will develop sufficient self-esteem to let her blossom and thrive in her own right ....... maybe.  But, evaluating 14-yr old Ron from GoF, I sure wouldn't lay odds that a R/H relationship will make it into their 6th year.  <g>  

Barb wrote on this point:

<<<<I think it's impossible to say just how Ron will grow and change, as he undoubtedly will, and who he may be suited for or unsuited for.  For some reason there's an assumption that Hermione and Harry are done growing and changing, that their 14/15 year old selves are the people they're going to be for the rest of their lives.  I certainly hope not!  They're not likely to stay the same either, we should remember.  (If JKR gets it right, and I have faith in her on this.)  So to say with any certainty that traits Ron possesses now will make him unsuited to Hermione or that traits Harry possesses now will make him suited to Hermione in the future when none of them are liable to be the same at the end of OotP as they were at the end of GoF is a bit of a leap of logic, I feel.>>>>>>

I certainly wouldn't argue that any of the characters (the adolescent ones that is) are done growing and changing!  Goodness.  No, that's my basic point.  Why on earth would JKR pair off 2 sets of hormonal teenagers for *life*, starting at age 14/15?  It really does not strike me that she's going to do this either.  Her interview comment ("He's only 14 so he has plenty of time to change his mind") very *clearly* signals that she doesn't plan to pair off the characters into life-long partnerships, starting in early adolescence.  So .... onward with that R/H ship in OoP I say.  Yeah, I'll drink to *that*!  <g>  Hardly likely to last, given the realities of teenage romances, is it?  No, I think JKR would know as well as anyone that relationships formed in teenage years are highly unlikely to last or succeed (sure, there are exceptions ...... but not many statistically speaking).  People change *so* much in their 20s (in my experience anyway) ...... and JKR herself had a failed marriage from her 20s.  

As for Harry and Hermione, I like them as a pair based on reasonable extrapolations of their future selves (not that I wouldn't cheer for a canon-based H/H relationship ..... but again, it would make it that much less likely to be the "real thing").  Barb is right that it's impossible to completely accurately extrapolate at this point, and there's no guarantee that any fan's extrapolation would mesh precisely with what JKR might have in mind, but based on my own personal experiences and reading of the characters, I'd say that H/H is a much better pairing on a number of levels.  

Now, on to whether Harry and Hermione have fun together:

Jim said:

<<<<<I disagree very much that Harry/Hermione are less together or drag
each other down.  They are much greater than the sum of their parts. 
Hermione, the intellectual, the researcher, both encourager and
conscience, and Harry, the instictive talent, the "man of action."  We
don't see them having fun together that much, it's true, but it's
likely to happen offpage. In the pages they're usually trying to keep
Harry in one piece>>>>>>>>>

I agree with all of the above, but I'd add that there *are* instances of Harry teasing Hermione into having more fun and the two of them being light-hearted together.  

The first that comes to mind without searching through the books with this in mind is in PoA: when Harry sneaks into Hogsmeade, Hermione frets about his safety.  It's not Ron who forces her to let up; it's Harry ...... by teasingly saying, "So, are you going to turn me in?" and flashing a grin her way.  She naturally relents and goes on to have a good time.  

The second was one that I was just listening to on the GoF tapes the other day: the time when Hermione says that Harry is supposed to work out the Egg's clue on his own.  

"I was supposed to work out how to get past the dragon on my own, too," Harry muttered so only Hermione could hear him, and she grinned rather guiltily.

I'm sure there are other instances as well, though those are the 2 that come most readily to mind at the moment.

Laura argued:

<<<<<Hermione, with her 
intellect and logic, is constantly telling Harry to be more careful.  
She bosses him around, lectures him on his actions, and rolls her 
eyes incredulously when he (or Ron, for that matter) can't see 
the "obvious" solution to the problem.  Don't get me wrong, I love 
Hermione, but she is a tad bit bossy and overpowering, and Harry 
never takes this very well.  He rolls his eyes, cuts her off, or just 
plain ignores her.  So while it's true that they make an amazing team 
while working together, there is usually a fair amount of friction 
between them at the same time.>>>>>>>>

Do you have any specific examples that you might quote?  I think you're generalizing based on Hermione in PS/SS is why I ask -- I think her character's become far less bossy and I certainly don't remember any eye-rolling on the part of either Harry or Hermione.  And, I can't think off-hand of any instances when he ignores her advice.    

Again, maybe it's just perception, but I see Harry and Hermione as having fun together and I don't see their relationship as particularly sibling-like.  I *do* see R/H as having behavior patterns that put me in mind of siblings though.    

Penny





  

 

  

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