Lupin is James - time travel

Fri Dec 27 20:19:36 UTC 2002

No: HPFGUIDX 48875

Nuri wrote:
> Sharana wrote at great length and eloquently concerning a theory 
> that Lupin died along with Lily and that James is now 
> masquerading.<SNIP>
>
> JKR has said in interviews that Lily and James are positively 
> dead. 

Me:
I have been looking all over the Internet for transcripts of JKR's 
interviews, but I haven't found anything stating that Harry's 
parents are positively dead. Could you (or someone) please point me 
to the correct link where she says this? I'd like to read it. Thank 
you. (I've already searched aberforthsgoat.net, the Lexicon and 
other places and couldn't find anything about it)

Nuri also wrote:
> BTW, Where are you from, Sharana? Spanish is my mother tongue too 
> (I'm from Argentina)

Me: 
I'm from Venezuela  :-)

nj13guy Wrote:
> Wouldn't he (fakeremus) know about Sirius' innocence and Peter's 
> guilt before this episode if he was really James? 
> James would be the one doing the secret-keeper switching, wouldn't 
> he, or at least have a say in it?  Even Dumbledore says that he 
> offered to be the Potter's secret keeper, but James insisted that
> it be Sirius.  That leads me to believe that James & Lily would be
> making that decision, thus knowing that Peter was the spy.   

Me: 
No, I believe the switching of bodies took place BEFORE the Fidelius 
Charm, and the only people who knew at that moment about the 
switching of bodies were Lily, James and Remus.

Then in PoA page 365 Sirius tells Harry that he persuaded Lily and 
James to change to Peter (as Secret Keeper) at "he last moment". By 
this time Remus and James would have switched bodies and Sirius 
thought he was speaking to James (he was speaking to Remus instead). 

RealJames (in Lupin's body) was not present at the time the Fidelius 
Charm was cast so he could not know about the change in the Secret 
Keeper. Only 4 people new of the CHANGE in the Secret Keeper: Lily 
(dead), Peter (that Rat!), Sirius (sent to Azkaban, who would 
believe him?) and FakeJames (Remus in James body)

On PoA: Ch.18 Page 351
"Everyone thought Sirius killed Peter," said Lupin, nodding. "I 
believed it myself - until I saw the map tonight. Because the 
Marauder's Map never lies...Peter's alive. Ron's holding him, Harry".

Lupin (RealJames) is realizing (at this point) that Peter is alive 
and he questions himself as to why Peter, if he was innocent, hasn't 
shown himself before. He then realizes Peter is hiding because he is 
guilty of something really big, he concludes that Sirius and Peter 
changed places without telling him, and Sirius confirms it in a 
scene I explained in my first post.

This is the order of events that make it possible (by what we see in 
canon) to explain my theory of James being alive in Lupin's body and 
still keeping it a secret.

nj13guy wrote:
> Sharana wrote:
>
>On the other hand, Dumbledore trusts Hagrid completely (trusted 
>Hagrid to deliver Harry to Privet Drive when he was a baby). But as 
>Hagrid said at the Three Broomsticks (Ch 10, Page 206), he didn't
>know that Sirius had been Lily and James Secret-Keeper. Why then 
>would Lupin be told at that time about the Secret-Keeper stuff? 
>It's supposed to be kept secret. Other than Dumbledore (who 
>suggested the use of this spell), no one else should know about it,
>including Lupin.
>
>me:
>
>My impression would be that Lupin didn't know about it at the time,
>but the story of Sirius' & Peter's confrontation in the street
>afterwards is very well known, thus Lupin would know about it now 
>even if he didn't then.

Me: 
Yes, Lupin would know about Sirius and Peter's confrontation but 
would believe, as everybody else that Sirius was guilty. Remember 
only 4 people new about the CHANGE of the Secret Keeper, after the 
confrontation of Sirius and Peter most people would know that the 
Fidelius Charm was cast, but only 4 new of the change of the Secret 
Keeper. Everyone else thought that the Secret Keeper was actually 
Sirius which was way he was sent to Azkaban.

nj13guy wrote:
> It seems like a pretty amazing theory. :-)
> But, I am not sure how plausible it is !
> This is pretty deep.

Me: I know, I understand it's hard to believe in.  :-)

nj13guy  wrote:
> When James's echo comes out of Voldemort's wand at the end of GoF,
> he did not seem to say any such thing. I mean If he were Remus, he
> would have said so. Echos are not supposed to lie. Or do they?

Me: 
Not necessarily. Up to now we don't know (by canon) nothing more 
about these echoes other than what Dumbledore told Harry, which is 
pretty vague. Echoes could lie.

Imagine what would happen if while Harry is trying to concentrate 
hard on the connection of wands, he finds out his father is alive 
(in Lupin's body) and that he actually met him and spent time with 
him. Harry would be so shocked that he would break the connection of 
the wands (at least), and that would be a catastrophe, probably 
could kill him. Why? Because, the shadows that regurgitated from 
Voldemort's wand were the reason Voldemort could be distracted 
enough time to let Harry run, grab Cedric's body and touch the 
Goblet which transported him safely back to Hogwarts. If the 
connection of the wands broke before all the shadows regurgitated, 
Harry would be in a much worse position, Voldemort could attack 
again. As I said before, the echoes have some level of conscience of 
what is going on in the living world, they even communicate between 
themselves, Bertha knew Harry's name (although that could have 
another explanation).

nj13guy wrote:
> The idea of one or both of Harry's parents being alive does seem
> very sweet, but I have not seen any concrete evidence which points
> to that way till now.

Me: 
You are absolutely right about the lack of concrete evidence, but 
there is no concrete evidence of the contrary either (up to now). 
Lily IS really dead, her sacrifice gave Harry extra protection, but 
you don't hear something like that about James. And yes, it would be 
very sweet :-)

nj13guy wrote:
> I hope JKR releases Book 5 pretty soon. I am going craZy with all
> these theories here. But, it is a cool idea. I hope JKR makes it
> come true.

Me too... (on both)

Kristen wrote:
>> Sharana:
>> Back to Potterverse you say that the event that triggers the loop
>> is the act of going back in time. Yes, but you have to be alive 
>> to go back in time. Harry is alive because a Patronus drove the 
>> Dementors away before the kiss. Even if he had received the kiss 
>> and goes back in time, he would not be able (being soulless) to 
>> cast the Patronus, so someone else must have done it (the first 
>> time), Harry later going back in time changed the fact on who 
>> cast the Patronus from that loop on, but he couldn't have cast it
>> the first time.
>> 
>Me:
>Ok, I admit it, this time loop talk gives me a headache.  Maybe I'm 
>being very dense here, but why couldn't it be Harry the first
>time? If it had to be someone else, then who attended all of 
>Hermione's classes?  

Don't worry Kristen, time loop talk is really complicated, 
especially when you don't have graphics to aid you. I'll try to put 
it as simple as I can (which is probably a lot more complicated than 
I said before). 

First of all Hermione's classes is a different case than Harry 
casting the Patronus the first time. Why? Hermione goes back in time 
to attend to classes; she doesn't risk dying in doing so, unless you 
count exhaustion, ;-) 

Hermione's time loop concerning her classes:

Let's say Classes 1, 2 and 3 are at the same hour (9 am), Classes 4 
and 5 are both at 10 am. Each class is one hour long. That means she 
must cover 5 hours of classes from 9 to 11 am. (2 hour period) (See 
chart below )

She enters classes 1 (9 am) and 4 (10 am). She then establishes a 
time loop going back in time, she lives these hours again (Second 
time) only she attends classes 2 (9 am) and 5 (10 am). From her 
point of view she has been in class for 4 hours, but she still needs 
to cover Class 3 so she activates another loop and goes back a third 
time. While she is in class 3 (9 am), there are two other Hermione's 
around: Herm-1 which is in Class 1 and Herm-2 which is in class 2. 
By the end of class 3 she has been in class for 5 hours, (but she is 
the only one who went back in time, the rest of the kids only had 2 
hours) she ended class 3 at 10 am, but the loop was established at 
11 am, she still has to wait an hour to get out of the time loop, 
she probably hides to do some homework. That is why she gets so 
exhausted during PoA, she is awake and studying and attending 
classes for a lot more hours than everybody else, she does not rest 
enough. To her, the days do not last 24 hours long, they must last 
about 35 hours. 

Loops    [Cls 1]  [Cls 2]  [Cls 3] [Cls 4]   [Cls5]    [BackInTime]
1stTime   Herm-1                   Herm-1            Herm-1 -> Herm-2
2ndTime           Herm-2                     Herm-2  Herm-2 -> Herm-3
3rdTime                    Herm-3                      She doesn't

Harry and Hermione's Time loop concerning the Patronus... 

Remember, the loop BEGINS the moment you go back in time the first 
time, NOT when the Patronus is cast.

Harry is surrounded by Dementors, one of them kisses him, he now is 
soulless so he cannot go back in time to cast a Patronus. So someone 
else (X-Guy) goes back in time and casts the Patronus for him, which 
makes the Dementor retreat before he kisses Harry (Harry-1), Harry 
is OK and goes back in time with Hermione. Harry (Harry-2) decides 
he wants to see who cast the Patronus that saved Harry-1, he 
suddenly believes it was him so he has the confidence to do it and 
he does. X-Guy is near Harry-2 and was about to cast the Patronus, 
but Harry-2 didn't see him, X-Guy hides from the Harry-2  while 
Harry-2 casts the Patronus. The loop will continue with Harry 
casting the Patronus. He could not do it the first time because he 
was kissed, making him incapable of casting any spell.

Loops   [DemKiss] [PatCast]  [DemRetreat]  [Harry Back In Time]  
1stTime  Harry-1     No           No
2ndTime  Harry-1    X-Guy        Yes       Harry-1 -> Harry-2
3rdTime  Harry-2   Harry-1       Yes       Harry-2 -> Harry 3
And so on...

OK, it got really complicated, just reread it and reread what I 
wrote before (slowly and carefully) and it will make sense. I hope!! 
If it doesn't, just forget it...

Cheers...

Sharana