Snapers vs. Sirists; Canon Snape

[marinafrants]

No: HPFGUIDX 34681

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> Marina wrote (about Snape's bravery):
> 
> > 
> > First of all, the question is not "is Snape more brave than 
> Sirius?",
> > the question is "is Snape brave?"  
> 
> That's true, of course.  But if one values bravery, and if Sirius is 
> more brave than Snape, then a Snape fan ought to like Sirius as
well, 
> no?

Well, I do like Sirius as well, but it doesn't necessarily follow
logically from liking Snape.  If Sirius had other traits that I really
hated, then bravery might not outweigh them.  For example, if I really
hated recklessness and impulsiveness, I might dislike Sirius even
while I acknowledged his bravery.

> 
> Marina again:
> 
> >Second, there is other canonical
> > evidence for this besides his spying activities (and given
Voldie's
> > tendency to Crucio anyone who even mildly annoys him, the spying
is
> > enough proof for me).
> > 
> > When Quirrel makes his first attempt at the Stone on Halloween, 
> Snape
> > goes after him, and gets his leg mangled by a giant three-headed  
> dog
> > for his trouble.  He knew the dog was there, so it's not like he
> > wasn't aware of the danger when he went.
> 
> Doesn't Snape's injury count as a strike against him in 
> the "Brilliant and Talented" category?  Quirrell doesn't get
mangled, 
> and I doubt "Not Fully Qualified" Hagrid would get mangled.  

Well, I'm not so sure that the ability to not get mangled by giant
three-headed dogs is a prerequisite for brilliance.  Hagrid has a
particular affinity with beasts, not to mention being too damn large
for most of them to damage -- and he knew about music putting Fluffy
to sleep -- so he has a number of advantages that have nothing to do
with brilliance.

As for Quirrel, we don't know what he did on this first attempt.  He
may have just opened the door, gone "Eeek! A giant three-headed dog!"
and run off again.  Snape, not knowing this, would've had to press on.

> 
> Marina again: 
>  
> > When he discovers that Lupin forgot to take his potion, he goes 
> after
> > him, even though he knows there's a good chance he might end up 
> having
> > to face down a werewolf.  When he gets to the Shrieking shack, he
> > finds himself facing not only Sirius -- whom he believes to be a
> > particularly brutal killer, the monster who murdered thirteen
people
> > with one curse, the only man ever to escape from Azkaban -- but
also
> > Lupin, whom he believes to be in league with Sirius.  Yet, 
> confronted
> > with two such vicious and evil (he thinks) enemies, Snape shows no
> > sign of fear or backing down; instead he faces them in order two
> > protect a bunch of kids he doesn't even like.
> 
> Oh, I just can't get on board here.  Snape goes to the Shack under
an 
> invisibility cloak and armed with his wand.  When he arrives, he 
> finds three kids, an unarmed Sirius Black, and his professional 
> colleague Lupin.  He doesn't take the cloak off until he is good and 
> ready.  I see no reason to think Snape was in any great danger or 
> behaved in an especially brave manner. 

We know Snape *wasn't* in danger, but I think he *thought* he was.  He
didn't see Lupin as a professional colleague, he saw him as a
bloodthirsty monster in league with a murderer.  And sure, Black
looked unarmed -- but the man escaped from Azkaban without a wand; who
knew what else he could do, evil DeathEater monster that he was?

Speaking of the invisibility cloak, Snape could easily have used it to
launch a sneak attack on Lupin and Black at any point -- that would've
been the safest thing for him to do.  Instead he revealed himself for
the confrontation.

> I don't think Snape was being 
> brave to follow Lupin; I believe he knew the cloak would protect
him, 
> and he also knew the full moon wasn't up yet.

I'm posting this from work and don't have my copy for PoA handy, so
correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that Snape didn't have
the cloak when he first went looking for Lupin; he found it later. 
I'm not sure it would've protected him anyhow -- a werewolf would've
been able to track him by smell.  And yes, the moon wasn't up when he
started looking, but Snape didn't know in advance how long it would
take him to find Lupin.

Marina
rusalka at ix.netcom.com