The S*S wars, a smidgeon of Snape/Lily, grammar

[Tabouli]

No: HPFGUIDX 34741

I've kept a low profile in the Sirius/Snape wars, as I've expounded my (fictional vs factual) feelings on this subject many times already.  For the record, I'll add my name to the list of those who like both.  I admit that Sirius would probably appeal more than Snape as a real person, Prank notwithstanding... a bit of fire and passion never went astray.  Impetuous, passionate people are often weak on thinking through consequences.  A true Gryffindor?  (vague attempt to find a RL parallel to The Prank... the teenage boy who energetically convinces his friend that's he's sober enough to drive, resulting in an almost-fatal accident? It does happen... it's the ol' immortality of youth syndrome)  A bit of Snape's tortured enigma wouldn't hurt either, though the nastiness would put me off.  Fictionally speaking, however, I'm with Laura:

Laura:
> One of the best signs of a capable writer is the ability to develop three-dimensional characters.  As in real life, *no one* should be perfectly good or perfectly evil in a well-written book.  Making characters multi-faceted makes them more believable and easier for the reader to relate to (...)  Furthermore, who wants to read about perfect people?  Perfect people don't have moral dilemmas, they don't have any faults, they barely have emotions, they don't ever do anything wrong, and, most importantly, THEY DON'T EXIST.   <

Hear hear... here's to P.A.C.M.A.N. (Perfectly Angelic Characters Make Awful Novels)...

Cassie:
> Say, could we get an acronym for those of us who *don't* want to turn Snape 
into a nice guy but *don't* hate him? ^^ 

In honour of the S-men debates, let's have another "man" acronym...


S.P.A.C.E.M.A.N. (Snape: Perversely Appealing Character, Endearingly Mysterious And Nasty)

Judy:
> My theory of why Snape left the Death Eaters is that he was in love with Lily.  (...) Sure, this is pure speculation.

Ahaaaa! (Captain Tabouli beams broadly).  Congratulations, Judy - your wisdom and sound deductive powers have just won you a free berth on the Good Ship LOLLIPOPS (Love Of Lily Left Ire Polluting Our Poor Severus)!  Welcome aboard, welcome aboard.  We have a friendly and colourful crew on deck, and are always open to new recruits.  However, as Captain, it is my duty to warn you that taking the "pure speculation" line may impede your chances of promotion.  My senior crew members and I hold that there is, in fact, quite a bit of canon evidence keeping us afloat. Refer to my 6th of November post "Severus Snape: The grudge and the very long LOLLIPOPS biography" (and, for that matter, my 12th of January post "Survivor Snape: LOLLIPOPS sails again!" which you may not have recognised as supporting this theory at the time...)

Marina:
> See, I have no idea whether or not Snape loved Lily (though I rather hope 
not, as I think that would be really trite); but I definitely don't 
buy the idea that love of Lily turned him away from the DE's because 
such a shallow conversion, frankly, isn't worth crap.  If one is 
going to turn from the side of evil to the side of good, then one 
must do it out of genuine moral conviction, a sincere belief that 
evil is, well, *evil* and must be fought.  "I don't care how many 
innocents they kill, it's only if they hurt my girl that I object" 
just doesn't cut it.<

No, no, it doesn't need to be anywhere near that simple.  Or that trite.  Besides, Voldemort wasn't after Lily personally, he was after James and Harry.  I lean more towards the idea that the plot to murder the Potters (rather than strangers and sundry Muggles) was what shocked Snape into realising what he had become.  Too close to home.  Imagining Lily's pain brought home the fact that he'd already helped to inflict that same pain on other people.  Not to mention what Lily would think of what he had turned himself into... (if she *had* survived, I can hardly see her feeling any warmth whatsoever towards the Death Eaters who killed her son and husband).  In my bio, I see Lily as a sort of principled moralist, who stands out against MWPP's torture of Snape, fuelling the unrequited crush, and, when it came to killing the Potters, reminding Snape that in fact, he was no better than his teen torturers himself.  Trigger for elaborate and dangerous flight from Voldemort to Dumbledore in excruciating angst...

I mean, look at Snape!  Are those symptoms of self-loathing or what?  Neglecting his appearance, taking out his bitterness and resentment at the world on his students, perfectionism, control freak tendencies, vengefulness, bearing lifelong grudges, distrusting everyone, general anti-social unpleasantness...

...hmmm.  Just had an interesting thought.  I wonder, actually, whether Snape and Harry's (and even Voldemort's!) childhoods might not have had quite a bit in common.  I've certainly heard that severe mistrust of people and bullying the weak and defenceless, notably torturing pets and the like, are classic symptoms of a child being abused by his/her carers.  And as I've said before, I think Snape turning up to Hogwarts at 11 knowing more curses than the 7th years is a very worrying indicator of what his childhood must have been like.  Whom did he want to curse?  An abusive parent or guardian?

Harry is remarkable example of a child who has emerged from his horrible childhood reasonably unscathed... perhaps Snape wasn't so lucky.  (OK, let me hastily add that I'm *explaining* Snape's cruelty, which is *NOT* the same as justifying it).

Alice:
> in response to Mark's comment about Rowling's 
punctuation, I do realize that it is grammatically 'incorrect', but 
I believe she writes in that manner to give us an idea of how the 
characters themselves speak- are they speaking quickly? Slowly?<

Acchhh, in HP JKR is being what I might call a "colloquial" writer.  She is endeavouring to write plausible, modern human dialogue, and since when has that been a glittering illustration of correct grammar?  Perfectly grammatical speech in the mouths of schoolchildren might mollify a few critics, but I think a large proportion of HP's audience would find it unconvincingly, clunky and off-putting.  HP's incredible popularity testifies to JKR's accessible style...

Tabouli.


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