Snape vs. Sirius, round 2

[uilnslcoap]

No: HPFGUIDX 34743

I, Devin, did indeed write the quoted porion of the following: 

> Devin also defended Sirius, saying that Sirius' violence in his 
adult 
> years was
> > "because he'd been in a place with Dementors for twelve years with
> > insanity calling his name, and in his teenage years, simply 
because
> > he was a teenager)"<

And Judy wrote:
 
> OK, we can try to excuse Sirius' behavior as a teenager, and we can 
> try to excuse his behavior as an adult.  Unfortunately, that's just 
> about all of his behavior that we know of.  *Maybe* he'd be a great 
> guy if he wasn't a teenager and wasn't traumatized, but, maybe 
not.  I 
> really don't see his being in Azkaban as an excuse for attacking 
the 
> Fat Lady or for not apologizing for breaking Ron's leg, or for his 
> glib claim that Snape deserved being fed to a werewolf.   Azkaban 
> makes people depressed; it doesn't force people to be violent or 
lack 
> remorse. (It probably makes people quite remorseful, in fact.). 

*deep sigh at realization of probable length of this post*

Okay, just to get back on track, I don't hate Snape.  I don't really 
like him, but I don't hate him.  He's done some really mean things, 
but he's done some really brave things.  I definitely grew more 
respect for him after learning a bit about his past.  I'm willing to 
cut him a little more slack for his rather nasty behavior knowing 
even some of what he went through as a spy, how hard it must have 
been to not give himself away, etc.

So, can't the people who don't like Sirius at least not hate him as I 
don't hate Snape?  All right, let's go over the above points Judy 
attempted to make.  I agree with what someone said earlier that it 
would really take a lot of trust to send a letter to any authority, 
even with the sentence "Pettigrew is Ron Weasley's rat."  Yes, 
someone as prudent as Dumbledore would indeed check that out, but 
once again, fresh out of a place like Azkaban, even months out of 
such a place, one isn't thinking clearly (I imagine, I've never been 
in a place like Azkaban) and there might be some way to trace an owl 
that we aren't aware of.  I'm sure my paranoia would be on HIGH after 
getting out of a place like Azkaban.  Even months after, I'd be 
scared as hell to let ANYONE know where I was.  So, was Sirius 
justified in attacking the Fat Lady?  No, of course not.  But he 
wanted to find Pettigrew, couldn't trust anyone but Crookshanks at 
that point, and was understandably upset when he couldn't get in 
there and get Pettigrew out.  I'm certain that if Black had had some 
human contact (with Lupin or some such), he could have been persuaded 
to get through to Dumbledore, but perhaps his lack of contact with 
humanity for THIRTEEN YEARS by the end of PoA had something to do 
with his unswerving plan to kill Pettigrew himself.  You probably 
don't think too much about trusting other human beings after 12 years 
in Azkaban and a year of living in hiding.

I disagree that Azkaban wouldn't make someone vengeful or callous in 
conversation.  Let's go with the supposition that Azkaban takes all 
things good that you remember out of you.  Well, this would remove 
trust, understanding, graciousness, and tact.  In fact, given those 
twelve years in Azkaban and 1 year sneaking around, we ought to be 
astounded by Black's speedy recovery of such things as love (for 
Harry as his godson and the offer to move in) and trust (in Lupin and 
HRH that they aren't about to just turn him over to the Dementors).  
Remorse?  Remorse...I think of remorse as a rather positive emotion, 
in its being often the first step to forgive or apologize and as an 
emotion that is very human and essential.  I bet you anything remorse 
is one of the last things on anyone's mind in Azkaban.

Another thing, Judy's postulate is that he might be a great guy if he 
wasn't a teenager at the time, but we can't know.  *slight cough*  
Who said he wasn't a great guy?  Lots of people at that age do REALLY 
stupid things.  This (THE PRANK! WHY CAN'T WE GET OVER THE PRANK? 
AAAUGGH!!) is the one and only incidence of reckless stupidity and 
cruelty in Sirius's childhood (unless you count allowing a werewolf 
to roam school grounds and Hogsmeade...but then you gotta count James 
and Pettigrew and Lupin in on that, so they're all culpable) that is 
documented in canon.  Most of the rest of the time, he appears to 
have been a pretty decent human being, albeit risk-taking (but so was 
Snape...both Snape and Sirius usually take risks for the right 
reasons).  He was James Potter's best friend, laughed at his wedding 
to Lily.  He must've been quite something as a human being, actually, 
to have been a friend, THE friend, one might argue, to the Potters.  
So there, I hope that's at least a bit of a case for his one 
documented black mark as just that, a black mark on an otherwise 
fairly clean page.

Adulthood, PoA.  It's apparent he took a few risks, such as buying 
Harry the Firebolt and such, so he wasn't entirely laid waste in 
paranoia by Azkaban.  I'm not trying to use Azkaban as the 
justification for every last bit of Sirius's foul-ups.  He shouldn't 
have slashed the Fat Lady, but he was, you know, a tad miffed about 
not being able to lay hands on the man who murdered his best friend 
and might kill Harry anytime he found convenient.  No, he shouldn't 
have made that comment about Snape, but he wasn't exactly thinking 
utterly straight under the stress of the situation, was he?  Would 
you have been?  Yes, he should've apologized to Ron, but he was a 
trifle more worried about Pettigrew and convincing HRH and Lupin of 
the truth.  Besides that, bones can apparently be healed in a matter 
of an hour or less, maybe it's not that big a deal in the wizarding 
world.  And once again, he hasn't had human contact for SO many 
years.  Maybe "I'm sorry" isn't even in his functioning vocabulary 
anymore.  Maybe remorse and apologies are one of the FIRST things to 
go in Azkaban.

Adulthood, GoF.  Sirius shows himself to be almost entirely 
reasonable and thoughtful.  Except for his continued prejudicial and 
stupid distrust of Snape, he's really pretty great and a very good 
role model for Harry.

I don't want to convince people who don't like Sirius to like him.  I 
just want them to not hate him or dislike him so savagely as they 
do.  I almost hated Snape before, but I don't now.  Maybe at some 
point, by Book VI or VII, I'll even be able to forgive him completely 
and settle into actually liking him.  If I can do that for you 
Snapers, can't you do at least as little as I ask for my Sirius?

Devin, who's editing and finalizing an H/G ship he hopes to advertise 
on the OT-Chatter page at some point