A little George, a little Lollipops, a whole lotta Snape

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 34894

Eileen wrote:

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "lucky_kari" <lucky_kari at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> > I think, judging from the way Snape's manner of speech 
changes 
> > when he talks to Filch, that Snape grew up in a great 
wizarding 
> > household  but as the offspring of servants. 
> 
> I don't have the books handy, but how does Snape change his  
manner of 
> speech? 

Snape's usual style is formal, polished and artificial, almost as if 
he'd learned it out of a book. The contrast is most noticeable in 
the staircase scene in GoF ch.25 where Snape says "I don't give 
a damn about that wretched poltergeist..." to Filch and switches 
styles "It is unimportant" when Moody comes along.

> 
> >Perhaps his parents 
> > were Squibs, or, more romantically, he's the offspring of a 
secret 
> > liason between the master of the House and a Squib parent.
> 
> Well, it depends what your idea of romantic is, I suppose. 

I meant in the broad literary sense of a fiction characterized by 
mysterious and extraordinary events.

> >It would help if Snape has some vampire talent for 
> > getting through locked doors, into libraries perhaps.
> 
> Where does he get the vampire ability in this scenario?

>From his mother, who came over from Europe as a child 
refugee. The vampire would have been her father.  RL England 
took in a number of children just before World War II  broke out. I 
am theorizing that maybe wizarding Britain did the same. All 
sheer speculation, of course.

> 
> >and it seems that 
> > Nagini has to be fed a wizard now and then.
> 
> Does it say that in the books?

Sort of. Harry dreams of the interview between Voldemort and 
Wormtail, in which Voldemort says he is going to feed Harry to 
the snake instead of Peter. Also, shadow!Cedric wants his body 
rescued. I felt there might be more than sentimental reasons for 
that. Presumably if Nagini is simply hungry she could feast on 
ordinary flesh, but Voldie seems to want her supplied with 
wizards.

> 
> >We also know that 
> > Voldemort's earlier reign was marked by disappearances.
> 
> I don't remember disappearances, but people coming home 
and finding 
> their families, friends dead. Is there a source for this?

 Dumbledore to Harry, chapter 30, GoF. "The years of 
Voldemort's ascent to power were marked with disappearances. 
Bertha Jorkins has vanished without a trace..." Dumbledore 
goes on to say that Crouch and Frank Bryce are also missing. 
We know what happened to Crouch's body, but I think Nagini 
may have gotten  Bertha and Frank. Frank is not a wizard, but 
feeding him to Nagini would at least dispose of him.

  Snape realizes that Voldemort 
> > and his Inner Circle are the enemies of wizards as well as 
> > Muggles, and switches sides.   
> 
> One thing I couldn't take was if Snape switched sides on a 
racist 
> basis. There. 
> 
Well, I'm not saying Snape is a racist now, or at least not a 
nihilistic violent racist, though he  may have some issues with 
Lupin and Hermione. It's hard to tell, just as it's hard to tell 
whether the Weasley twins really don't have anything against 
Dudders for being a Muggle. We have a character, Crouch Sr., 
who began to do very bad things for good reasons, so why can't 
we have a character who begins to do good things for a bad 
reason?  I agree there must have been some event which 
persuaded Dumbledore  that Snape's conversion was genuine. I 
think it might have something to do with Fawkes. Dumbledore 
says that only someone truly loyal to him could summon the 
phoenix. Perhaps that's what Snape did. 

> Half suspects? Here's a theory that will make Snape a little 
less 
> slimy in the situation.
> 
> It's near the end. They are about to cast the Fidelius charm, but 
Lily 
> is still worried. So, she comes up with a back-up plan. She 
proposes 
> it to Severus, who is on Dumbledore's side at that point. He 
isn't 
> enthusiastic about it, but she begs him to do it, and says that 
the 
> Fidelius charm is sure to work, but if it fails..... 
> 
> So, then he goes to Voldemort with his horrible proposal. "Kill 
the 
> Potters if you like, but spare Lily for me." Voldemort is not just 
> amused but as he needs Snape for the research agrees. 

I don't like the idea of Snape knowing about Fidelius. That 
seems too much of a risk. Besides, I like the rather LeCarre 
(waves at Alex) scenario where Lily makes her offer to Snape not 
knowing he is actually on her side.  Snape can't tell her, and she 
can't tell him that she is planning to disappear and  he's never 
going to see her again, no matter what happens. But that's just 
me. I don't think we can get away from sliminess in a spy story. 
"Think of the person who lives in disguise, Who deals in secrets 
and tells naught but lies." The best we can do, maybe, is try to 
shift all the sliminess to Voldemort and Peter. Judy's Ewww 
theory does that. But if we say that Snape had noble motives 
from the beginning, then his redemption is less meaningful, 
IMO.

Pippin