Trelawney and the first prediction WAS Re: How to rescue "EWWWWW"/Trelawny

[uilnslcoap]

No: HPFGUIDX 34948

(snip discussion of Trelawney's first real prediction possibly being 
"Lily Potter's son will win the war for his father's side", and 
therefore Voldemort wanted to have Lily carry HIS son, but got 
impatient when Lily insisted on dying for Harry)

Cassandra wrote:

However, if it was 
> a prophecy, I don't think it could've come from Trelawny. In PoA 
Dumbledore 
> says something along the lines of Trelawny making her second 
accurate 
> prediction leading to the assumption that, of course, she had made 
a first 
> accurate prediction. What we're looking for is something that has 
happened. 
> "Lily Potter's son will win the war for his father's side" wouldn't 
fit that, 
> because he hasn't won it yet. I know that wasn't the ONLY prophecy 
idea you 
> had in mind, of course. ^^

It's interesting that we are sort of discussing prophecies, and the 
inevitability of prophecies and your name is Cassandra, huh?

Anyway, hmmm, I don't think the possibility is eliminated that 
Trelawney predicted such a thing.  I don't think we necessarily have 
to be looking for something that has already happened.  Cassie, are 
you saying that there is some sort of time constraint on 
predictions?  I don't know.  In PoA, Trelawney predicted Pettigrew 
would escape that night and help his master back to power, and that 
took about a year to work itself out (if indeed it has completely 
worked itself out, perhaps he hasn't really come back to power in the 
manner T--as I will refer to Trelawney from now on--predicted).  No, 
I think it's perfectly possible that T predicted something that would 
happen in twenty years' time or something.  Or are you arguing 
something else that I just don't understand in terms of this possible 
first prediction?

Oh, I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN!  You're saying that Dumbledore called the 
first prediction accurate because it happened already, right?  
*thinks about that*  No, no, I don't think that quite lines up.  See, 
the second prediction hasn't really happened in its entirety yet when 
Dumbledore talks about it as being a "real" prediction.  The Dark 
Lord has in fact, NOT risen "again, with his servant's aid, greater 
and more terrible than ever he was" when Dumbledore says it was a 
real prediction, yes?  (Scary interlude: you mean Voldemort is going 
to be WORSE than he was during the war back in the day? oh dear)  I 
think Dumbledore was only referring to the trance state T was in both 
times she made a real prediction and that, therefore, the first real 
prediction need not have happened yet.  I'm sure that Dumbledore 
recognized by her speech and manner at the time the first prediction 
she made as one that was truly inspired, and therefore when Harry 
describes T's state (strange voice, rigid manner, eyes rolled up in 
her head), Dumbledore recognizes that it was another real prediction.

Personally, I think I will stick by my guess at the prediction which 
goes something like, "A (The last?) descendant of Godric Gryffindor 
will defeat the last descendant (or ancestor, whichever printing you 
believe) of Salazar Slytherin."  For me, it just makes the whole 
thing fit together very well.  I know this has been brought up 
before, but still--Godric's Hollow, the sword in CoS, "only a true 
Gryffindor" and all that jazz.  It also lends a sort of epic quality 
to the whole thing.  The descendants of two of the greatest wizards 
of all time determining the fate of the world, blahdy blahdy blah.  
This also makes sense to me because no other wizard relatives of 
Harry are living once his parents die, so it seems Voldemort (though 
it could just be bad luck) was trying to get rid of that whole side 
of the family.  Also explains why he wasn't particularly interested 
in killing Lily (though everyone is right about this being 
incosistent with Voldie's attitude about killing, I'm still not sure 
why one who says "Kill the spare" wouldn't just up and murder anyone 
standing in the way, maybe the original "ewww" is right on those 
lines).

A thought or two: HOW does Voldemort know about the first prediction 
(which seems likely given his apparent need to kill James and Harry, 
but not Lily)?  How does Dumbledore?  Were they both there when 
Trelawney made this first prediction (perhaps V was still Riddle at 
the time)?  T does not seem to remember her true predictions, so they 
can't have got it out of her after the prediction was over and she 
lapsed into normalcy (or at least, her own interesting brand of 
"normalcy").  How do D and V know?  Or is there a way that it's not 
necessary for the plot for V to know the first prediction that I have 
not recognized?

Devin, who is grinning right now because he can just see Voldemort 
pointing the wand at baby Harry, saying "Now, the prophecy can't be 
true because if it was, something like a miracle would have to happen 
right now."