Trelawney and the first prediction WAS Re: How to rescue ...

[uilnslcoap]

No: HPFGUIDX 34976

> In a message dated 2/9/2002 4:43:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> devin.smither at y... writes:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN!  You're saying that Dumbledore called 
the  first prediction accurate because it happened already, right?  
*thinks about that*  No, no, I don't think that quite lines up.  See, 
the second prediction hasn't really happened in its entirety yet when 
Dumbledore talks about it as being a "real" prediction.  The Dark 
Lord has in fact, NOT risen "again, with his servant's aid, greater 
and more terrible than ever he was" when Dumbledore says it was a 
real prediction, yes?  

IamLordCassandra wrote:
 
Hmm, you've got me there. How about this though: Even if Dumbledore 
recognized the trace there would still have to be some evidence in 
part or in full that the prediction was real. In the case of the 
"Dark Lord rising with the aid of his servant' prediction, Wormtail 
did escape and was (or at least Dumbledore might've assumed he was at 
the time) returning to Voldemort. So what I said still goes before, 
except I'm adding that the prediction may have only come true in part 
so far, which is why Dumbledore would call it accurate.
 
This would work better than the 'seeing her go into the trance' 
theory, I think, because we don't know that he saw her go into the 
trance. And it works if he did see her go into the trance. ^^
 
~Cassie-who is noticing how more and more people associate her with 
Cassandra the Prophet ^^~ 

----------------------------

And now Devin is writing:

Yes, intriguing.  All right, let's assume you're right.  Even this 
does not cut off the possibility that Trelawney predicted Harry's 
defeating Voldemort.  How about the prediction being something like: 
"And lo, James Potter and Lily Evans will marry and conceive a son 
who will defeat the greatest dark wizard of the age, and so the last 
descendant of Godric Gryffindor will defeat the last descendant of 
Salazar Slytherin"  There, the first part of the prediction has 
already come true, and it might lead Dumbledore to believe the second 
part of it would come true (in a way, it already has--which might 
lead Voldie to believe he's beaten the prophecy now that he's come 
back from the almost-dead).

In defense of my own point of view, it seems to me that when Harry 
describes Trelawney's state at the time of the prediction, that (her 
state) is what convinces Dumbledore it is probably a true 
prediction.  I imagine her first prediction was heralded by the same 
signs, and even if Dumbledore didn't hear it from Trelawney directly, 
whoever told him probably said, "Yeah, Trelawney came over all funny, 
spoke in this kooky voice, said something about James and Lily having 
a kid that would kill some dark wizard, something about Gryffindor 
and Slytherin..."  And then Dumbledore probably asked for more detail 
and came to believe it was a true prediction.  Maybe true Seers in 
the wizarding world go into trances all the time.  Maybe ones better 
than Trelawney even REMEMBER their predictions after their trance is 
over.

Devin, member of LOLLIPOPS and fervent believer in H/R, H/G (in that 
order)