[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape & the DEs, Reprise

[Porphyria]

No: HPFGUIDX 35008

On Friday, February 8, 2002, at 02:33 PM, Elkins wrote:

> More on Snape and his affection (or lack thereof) for the Death
> Eaters, and other related topics.
>
> ----
> Snape and the Slyth Kids
>
> I know that it's an unpopular opinion around here, but I think that
> Snape really *does* favor Draco and the Slytherins.  Yes, I suppose
> that it might also be in his best interests as a possible future spy
> to stay on good terms with all the Slyth kids' DE Daddies, but I
> don't really believe that's the primary reason he favors them.  I
> think he favors them primarily because Slytherin is his House, and
> because Snape is loyal to House Slytherin in spite of the fact that
> an appalling number of its Old Boys went bad during the last big
> wizarding war.

It just seems to me that his loyalty to Dumbledore probably outweighs 
his loyalty to his house, and this is significant when the two are at 
odds. Granted, Dumbledore probably hopes for the best from the average 
Slytherin student, but all the muggle-hating Slyth families *loathe* 
muggle-loving Dumbledore, so Snape's allegiance to him is suspect from a 
Slyth viewpoint, it already speaks of a certain betrayal of old 
Salazar's pureblood standards. Snape might feel a loyalty to his house 
in peacetime when it simply provides a pleasant opportunity to razz 
McGonagall over the Quidditch match outcomes, but now with signs that 
Voldemort has been on the rise since Harry's first year? When pro-LV 
sentiment seems poised to reemerge from the Malfoys, Crabbes and Goyles 
of Slytherin house just as before? The stakes are different, and Snape's 
loyalty must be a little malleable if it gets trumped by Dumbledore. I 
mean, in theory he could try to stay neutral in a situation which pits 
his loyalty for his house against allegiance to the headmaster, but this 
is very much not his inclination, his personal investments are a lot 
stronger where Dumbledore is concerned. Of course none of the Slytherin 
students know this...it just makes you wonder the extent of what Snape 
is keeping secret from them.

> It's by far the simplest explanation.  It seems perfectly in-
> character to me.  And I don't really see very much in canon either
> to contradict it or to support a different reading. 

Yeah, but like I said in a previous post, this is a series where 
situations are often the opposite of what they seems and plot twists 
abound. Sometimes the simplest explanation is probably true, sometimes 
quite the contrary. Was a polyjuiced Crouch the simplest explanation of 
why Harry's name wound up in the cup? ;-)

> As for Draco, I do think that Snape genuinely likes him -- or at the
> very least strongly identifies with him.  The kid seems to be good
> at potions, he has a vicious and spiteful sense of humor, he's
> partial to hexes and curses, he's prone to envy, and he not only
> hates Harry Potter but has also been trying to get him in trouble or
> expelled ever since their very first week of classes together.  I 
> mean, really.  What's not to like?  ;-)

Well, the fact that he's a spoiled brat. :-) Given that Draco is a 
whiny, privileged kid, I think Snape's habit of letting him get away 
with everything is really a little fishy. Snape seems like the kind of 
guy who takes pride in his talent and works hard at it; it's hard for me 
to see how he'd approve of someone who slides along by malingering, 
falling back on family prestige and generally squirming out from under 
responsibility. OK, maybe he finds Draco amusing on some level, but I 
don't think his indulgence is doing the kid any practical favors. It's 
not teaching him any useful life-lessons or survival skills. Is it even 
teaching him to brew better potions? Snape appears to be giving Hermione 
better marks. If he really liked Draco as much as he seems to, why 
wouldn't he find some slimy reason to deduct points from Hermione's exam 
and add a few special bonus points to Draco's? Or better yet, if he 
really really cares about Draco, why aren't there signs that he's 
mentoring him in some really useful way? Does he even teach him better 
techniques for chopping ginger root? It seems more to me that what Snape 
does is curry Draco's favor in a way that, if Draco were smarter, he'd 
hold with some suspicion.

> ----
> Snape and Lucius, What Snape Knows, and That Sudden Movement

>  The Lucius Malfoy we
> actually see in canon comes across (to me, at least) as an utter
> moron who couldn't even dissemble his way out of a parking ticket. 
> He's about as subtle as a brick, and when Voldemort addressed him in
> the graveyard as "my slippery friend," my first inclination was to
> snort in derisive laughter.  It's a bit...frustrating, that.

Oh, but Lucius is slippery...it's from all that greasing of palms he 
does. :-)

> As for Snape's Sudden Movement (which is beginning to remind me far
> too much of That Goddamned Gleam In Dumbledore's Eye)...

Um, does this mean you're already tired of discussing it? Uh oh...
<...>
> My personal theory on the Sudden Movement is this: Snape knows full
> well that the instant that Harry speaks Lucius Malfoy's name, he will
> have destroyed *any* chance of being believed by the likes of Fudge.
> Fudge will *never* accept a tale that implicates such a wealthy and
> respectable member of society.  So the movement is an instinctive
> gesture of warning -- or of interruption, or even of restraint --
> which is then suppressed almost instantly because (a) Snape can't
> very well go shutting Harry up under the circumstances, and (b) it's
> too late anyway: the damaging name has already been spoken, and any
> hope of gaining Fudge's trust or allegiance has probably been lost.
>
> <shrug> 
>
> Well, that's my interpretation of the Sudden Movement, anyway.  Any
> takers?

I think your theory is plausible, but I can't help but imagine that the 
Movement foreshadows something further in the future than Fudge's 
reaction. I mean, given that his gesture is a little mysterious and all 
(the wording "sudden movement" is deliberately vague), shouldn't it 
indicate more than what is depicted a few minutes later in this very 
scene?

My take on this: I think Snape and Lucius are headed for a day of 
reckoning. The text keeps hinting at something along these lines. 
Snape's evident fondness for Draco, whether it's real or fake, has to be 
headed somewhere, and it seems that Draco goes home and tells Dad how 
wonderful his favorite potions professor is. And surely Snape and Lucius 
would have known each other from their DE days. There's gotta be plot 
potential here...so if we agree that Snape's sudden movement is directly 
in response to the mention of Lucius' name, and that it communicates 
some sort of strong emotion other than naive surprise that Lucius, 
shocker of shockers, is still a loyal DE, well...to me this points to 
some sort of interesting fireworks between the two in a future setting. 
Maybe I just really want to see these guys pitting their respective 
propensities for menace against each other.

Well, OK, here's a theory: In CoS, Lucius shows up at Borgin and Burkes 
to unload some incriminating items that he really doesn't want the MOM 
to find in his house. Presumably he's got a wide variety of dark arts 
items stuffed under the drawing room floor, but he specifically mentions 
*poisons* to Mr. Borgin. So they must be pretty suspicious poisons, you 
know? Not just garden gnome poison or magical spot remover. So that set 
me to wondering where they originally came from. Hmmm. Do we know anyone 
who was a DE back in the day who might have had a talent for brewing 
particularly nasty, illegal, specialized-function poisons? I mean the 
Borgias had their court-poisoner, so why not the aristocratic Malfoy's? 
Well, there you go, that's my theory for what Snape's particular DE 
function used to be. Plus that drawing-room chamber is just too 
intriguing to not come up again. I think these things will tie together: 
Snape and Lucius have a history which will come back into play in a big 
hairy way.

Regarding Avery:

In another post, I said:

> > Also, Avery seems like a coward -- maybe he's really evil but
> > just hyper.
>
> Oh, Porphyria!  Surely you meant to say "he's *not* really evil, but
> just hyper," didn't you?  I certainly hope so, because otherwise we
> may need to have words.  You *know* how I feel about Avery.  ;-)

Well, erm, I think my original reasoning was maybe he's evil and thus 
perfectly loyal to LV and then his histrionic fit would just be a 
strange but effective attention-getting device. But you must grant me 
the merest shred of slack here, because I did post this before your 
touching defense of him. Now I see the error of my ways. However, I'm 
still trying to grok the distinction between a 'toady' and a 'nerveless 
hysteric.' These fine points are beyond my simple ken...you'd better 
keep me away from the S.Y.C.O.P.H.A.N.T.S' Minions' Ball, I'd set off a 
chain reaction of conniption fits amongst the Whining Neurotics in a 
heartbeat. Still, it might be fun to watch, if only it didn't remind me 
of my office so much....

~~Porphyria




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