A Sirius Offense, Round 2 (WAS a Sirius Defense,

[Penny & Bryce]

No: HPFGUIDX 35078

Hi --

Well, first things first I suppose --

judyserenity wrote:

>> Penny, I get the feeling that it really matters to you whether people
>> like Sirius or not.  Why?

Oh, it doesn't matter to me whether people choose to *like* him or not. 
  I do like to offer up a solid defense of Sirius' character when it's 
called into question though -- putting all the sides of an issue on the 
table so to speak.  It allows people with less strongly-held opinions to 
perhaps be swayed one way or another.  But, no, I'm not out to convert 
those who openly dislike Sirius.  Like all lawyers, I like a good debate 
now & again of course.  <g>

So, back to the debate at hand:


> I also believe that actions speak louder than words.  (This is one of
> the reasons I think Snape isn't so bad; he says nasty things, but what
> we've actually seen him *do* isn't so bad.)

Really?  So, teaching his favorite student how to conjure a vicious 
snake as part of a duel with another student -- that isn't so bad in 
your book? (or do you argue that he didn't *do* anything, Draco did?)? 
What about tying up a fellow professor without waiting for explanations? 
  Threatening to kill Sirius in the next breath?  Those are more than 
words.  I would also posit that he abuses his position of authority time 
& again with his treatment of students, albeit through the use of mere 
nasty speech & threats.  I somehow think the effect of "I see no 
difference" when looking at Hermione's teeth was about equivalent to a 
slap in the face.  Anyway, I'm not so sure about Snape failing to *do* 
anything all that terrible; I think I must differ with you on that score.


  Ok, so Sirius answers his
> mail and makes some wise comments, but I don't see that as such a big
> deal.  Heck, for all we know, Snape has lots of penpals, whom he
> answers promptly, with sage advice.  Would that make you like him?

So, you think it's just being a mere "penpal"?  I really can't even 
think how to respond to that.  It's so obvious to me that Sirius 
genuinely cares about Harry (and Harry's friends).  It's also obvious to 
me that Sirius' "wise comments" as you put it are not the sort of thing 
he could just make up out of thin air.  In other words, I think the real 
Sirius has some moral grounding, some opinions about principles (not 
stooping to the level of the DEs) & values (how a parent should & 
shouldn't interact with their kids).  This, IMO, contradicts the 
Devil-may-care, self-centered Sirius that some people see.

> 
> Now, I will grant that Sirius shows real concern for Harry at various
> points (like, when he isn't choking him), as evidenced by your points
> 1, 4, and 5.  However, as I've said before, one thing that bothers me
> about Sirius is that he acts as if only his friends count, and other
> people don't.

Who?  Snape?  It's obvious that Sirius loathes Snape, but the feeling is 
mutual.  I see no other canon evidence though that Sirius runs 
rough-shod over everyone who isn't in his "inner circle."

> 
> Again, as I've said before, part of the problem is that Sirius (and
> several other characters) are written inconsistently.  The concerned
> godfather of GoF is a far cry from the angry knife-wielder of PoA. 
> So, whether you like Sirius or not depends on which Sirius you think
> is the "real" one.

I think you're quite right that the PoA Sirius is very different from 
the GoF Sirius.  But, my take has always been that PoA Sirius is, if 
nothing else, suffering from extreme stress (and IMO more likely PTSD). 
  GoF Sirius has had some respite -- he's taken refuge & gotten some 
R&R, had a few chitchat sessions with Dumbledore via owl post & had some 
time to reflect.  GoF Sirius is very different ... but he's the most 
recent Sirius we have.  I'm curious why you're willing to dismiss 
everything there is about Sirius in GoF simply on the basis of his 
conduct in POA when he was under extreme stress?  He does an outstanding 
job as Harry's godfather in GoF ... and I recall nothing in GoF that 
substantiates the notion that Sirius is self-centered or cares only for 
those who happen to be his friends.  In other words, we have a positive 
portrayal in the most recent segment of canon, after the character has 
had time to regroup & center himself from being imprisoned for 12 yrs 
for crimes he didn't commit.... seems to me that this *is* the real Sirius.

As I said when I jumped into this thread, it caught my eye simply 
because it was titled "Snape vs. Sirius."  As if a reader can only like 
one or the other, but not both; as if one absolutely must *choose* 
between the 2 characters.  I can't wait to hear Snape's backstory & I 
find him complex & interesting.  But, I also think he's a nasty 
loathsome *person* so far, and there aren't any real inconsistencies in 
how he's portrayed.  He's nasty & spiteful to his students 
cover-to-cover in all 4 books.  So, if choose I must, it's an easy choice.

Penny