Avery, Voldemort's Wand, Timeline (WAS Avery and Ambushes)

[cindysphynx]

No: HPFGUIDX 35304

Having pushed Avery overboard because his sniveling was dancing on my 
last good nerve, I must take one last shot at bringing someone -- 
anyone -- along on a few points:

***********

Eileen wrote (about Crouch's 1962 birthday):

> Where does the lexicon get the birthday? Is it just an assumption 
from 
> a 1981 date?
> 

I have no clue.  All I know is that Steve says it, so it is true.  :-)
I suspect it is extrapolated from something.  It probably isn't far 
off, though.

Cindy wrote:

> > So . . . Crouch was sent to prison right after the Longbottoms 
were 
> > tortured in 1981 (on the strength of Neville's Reverse Memory 
Charm 
> > testimony, mind), and he was pardoned when Fudge became Minister 
of 
> > Magic shortly thereafter.  

Eileen questioned:

>How does Avery get off if Neville with his 
> magically enhanced testimony fingers him and Crouch? 

Because after some time passed, people started questioning the 
reliability of this Reverse Memory Charm.  Also, even if people 
believed that the Reverse Memory Charm was infallible, you have to 
remember that Avery used the Imperius Defense to win his appeal.  So 
even if Memory Enhanced Baby Neville saw exactly what he claimed he 
saw, Avery might have been under the Imperius Defense.

Eileen wrote:

> And Crouch certainly has to "die" quickly to get this theory going. 
> No, too short. I like Elkins's idea better. Sorry.

I don't follow you.  Crouch gets sprung from Azkaban whenever he gets 
sprung.  I don't think it matters much for the timeline exactly when 
this happens.  Avery, however, gets out quickly -- as soon as Fudge 
takes over.

What am I missing?


Eileen again (on whether Avery had anything to do with Voldemort's 
wand):

> We could have it.
> 
> 1. Pettigrew picks up wand.
> 2. Gives it to Voldemort.
> 
> OR
> 
> 1. Avery picks up wand 
> 2. Gives to Crouch Jr.
> 3. Confiscated by Crouch Sr., who keeps it around just in case.
> 4. Voldemort gets it back when he visits the Crouch residence.

But . . . but . . . Voldemort is a vapor, a cloud of gas, a stench on 
the back of Quirrell's turban or some such.  Voldemort can't have 
possession of his wand until the beginning of GoF.  Indeed, he 
remarks that possessing snakes wasn't his cup of tea because their 
slimy little no-hands bodies aren't great for magic, IIRC.  So Avery 
has to give it to someone who doesn't wind up in Azkaban.  

::Cindy, having had a good night's sleep and now being willing to 
tackle this issue, squares her shoulders::

The obvious choices:

Bagman
Malfoy
McNair

Of these, I'd put money on Malfoy.  Malfoy seems to like to get his 
hands on important Dark magical objects, like the diary.  So I'm 
thinking that Malfoy coached Avery on the finer points of 
establishing an Imperius Defense.  Avery told Malfoy to hang onto 
Voldemort's wand.  

But how does Voldemort's wand make it to Pettigrew?

The alternative is that Bagman has Voldemort's wand, having received 
it from Avery.  Under the "Bagman Is A Hideously Evil DE Who Assisted 
In The Plot To Restore Voldemort" theory, Bagman gave it to Pettigrew 
in the first part of GoF.  Kinda weak, frankly.

McNair?  I just can't see it.  That would really come out of nowhere.

Eileen wrote (about whether Dumbledore required the Ambush from Snape 
as a condition of taking Snape back into the fold):

> True. Sorry, Cindy. I'll have to retract my support for the ambush 
> being the loyalty proof. 
 
Ouch! 

OK, as I understand it, Elkins makes the point that Voldemort would 
happily sacrifice a few of his inner circle to establish Snape in 
Voldemort's camp.  But the best piece of canon to support the Ambush-
On-Dumbledore's-Orders idea is Dumbledore's refusal to answer Harry's 
question about why he trusts Snape.  *No way* is Dumbledore going to 
tell a student that a teacher betrayed his old school chums and got 
some of them killed.  

That's all I've got, really. ::hangs head in defeat::

Cindy -- finding it lonely in the Ambush-On-Dumbledore's-Orders camp, 
the Reverse-Memory-Charm camp, the Bagman-Is-A-DE camp, the Sirius-
Was-Having-His-Way-With-Florence camp, and the Snape-Has-A-Debt-To-
James camp, but consoling herself by eating all of the Smores 
singlehandedly