[HPforGrownups] Re: What Snape knew

[Amanda]

No: HPFGUIDX 35334

I said
> > > So before any of you start ragging on Snape again, that he heard
> the truth and just chose to ignore it, look and see what it can be said
with
> certainty that Snape really did hear. He was either not yet in the room,
or
> out cold, for the revelations that would have allowed him to entertain any
> of what *we* know is the truth.

Mercia responded:
>
> OK so us relative newbies miss the odd post or several thousand in
> 33000. You did certainly deal very comprehensively with the sequence
> of events in the shrieking Shack and I am sorry if I seemed to be
> rehashing old ground.

My response:

Jeez. That wasn't what I meant; there was no criticism implied at all, and
the vile disease *Severus viputeratus* is not confined to newbies.

Over my moons on this list, though, I *have* seen that whenever the
Shrieking Shack scene comes up, inevitably posts pop up saying how Snape is
mean, nasty, awful, beyond redemption, etc., because of what he heard and
then ignored. Often the poster supports their position with a misremembered
bit of the chapter. I was just tryin' to head the varmints off at the pass.

It seems to me that unless you think Snape would stand outside the door and
listen for a time before going in (which I think does not fit with either
his character or the situation) or would feign unconsciousness after the
attack (which is ridiculous), it is clear from going through the chapter
carefully that he misses most of the important revelations.

> However it is very rare to come up with genuinely new stuff.

True, but I've seen it done; after almost a year and a half of this list,
I've still seen new takes on things come across the board. Even, recently,
on one of my favorite and much-analyzed scenes, Snape and Lupin in his
office, on the map.

> And since this group has been going for some years,
> clearly those of us new to it will pick up old threads again not
> realising they have already been well unravelled.

We know. Lots of the older members don't post much because we're sitting
back and enjoying how *you* untie the knots. It was fun for us to debate
these things, and we still join in sometimes; why should we rain on *your*
fun? As I said, I was just trying to obviate some of the needless Snape
bashing, which makes me have to bestir myself and type. Sigh.

> > Seriously I appreciate the analysis and I didn't mean to imply or
> suggest that Snape knew everything that was said.

Others often come away with the impression that he did. Really. Many people
get the idea that he knew it all and still was trying to get Sirius Kissed
or the like; their view of Snape is colored by this as more nasty than he is
(which is nasty enough), so I thought reposting it might be of use.

> It just seemed that he
> might have heard enough to give him pause for thought, if he had
> been capable of thinking rationally at that point.

Ah, but that complete lack of control was so uncharacteristic and thus so
tantalizing! Why then? Why them? Was it the people involved, the situation,
the parallels, the past....? Inquiring minds....

Also, given that he is reasonably sure he *does* know the facts--as
everyone, including Dumbledore, has interpreted them to that moment--it is
entirely possible that he *did* take in what was said and the small fraction
he heard seemed to him to substantiate those facts.

> And I accept that
> he was so convinced both of Sirius' guilt and Lupin's collusion that
> he wasn't really open to other perspectives. Why though did he stay
> invisible for at least 10 minutes worth of conversation? Why not
> reveal himself as soon as he was in the room or as soon as he had
> weighed up the situation? He listened in for quite a while.

Good question. I think he has a flair for the dramatic, and chose his
entrance. I haven't read the chapter with an eye for where everyone was
standing, but he might have waited until he had an advantage strategically.
He could choose his time, since he was in a position of strength; he was
unseen, could choose where to stand, could listen until he felt satisfied of
his interpretation, could make sure the kids were not in immediate danger,
etc. I'll have to reread this to see if there seems to be any reason why he
did pick that particular moment. He knew he couldn't listen for long or he'd
be dealing with a werewolf. Hmmm.

This chapter is masterfully constructed in the timing of everything, when
you look carefully at it; I can't imagine something as vital as when Snape
de-cloaked and tried to take charge would be random.

 --Amanda, who is going to start including a standard "I am NOT criticising
your post or your newness on the list, honest, I just thought you might like
to know this" disclaimer in all her posts