Bangers and their bangs (was: A Credo For George (SHIP))

[moongirlk]

No: HPFGUIDX 35559

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:

> You see, Big Bangers generally tend to believe that most Big 
> backstory questions can be answered by a Big Event in the 
character's 
> life.  In other words, characters don't just wake up one morning 
and 
> decide they want to evil.  Or good.  Or something else they weren't 
> the day before.  No, we believe in clearly identifiable and 
> significant canon catalysts for major character changes in 
outlook.  

I'm ambivalent about Big Bang, I think.  There's some room for bangs 
in my way of viewing the Potter world, but I don't think that *all* 
changes are the result of a Big Bang.  For example, in the specifics 
of Snape's story, I don't think I buy any of the bangs that have been 
presented so far, which is why I've spent a few evenings in George's 
company lately.  I'll get to that more later though.


Elkins:
> > Well, from his introduction, it would seem that George is 
primarily 
> > concerned with two backstory questions: Why Did Snape Join the 
DEs 
> >In the First Place?, and Why Did He Then Turn?  
> 
Cindy:
> Big Bang has the answers to these two questions.  Snape joined the 
> DEs because of The Prank.  This, I think, is consistent with 
George.  
> Snape was royally ticked that Dumbledore hadn't supported Snape and 
> disciplined the Marauders for The Prank.  Snape's anger was already 
> simmering, and he was being actively recruited by DE friends, but 
The 
> Prank blew things wide open. ::insert climactic scene in 
Dumbledore's 
> office, which ends with Snape storming out and right into 
Karkaroff's 
> lair::  Snape felt he had no choice but to join up with his DE 
> friends.  

I can't buy that Snape joined the DE's specifically because of the 
Prank, but I can buy that it was a part of it.  I think Snape had a 
predisposition toward darkness.  I like the way George describes 
this - he maybe thought Evil was kinda 'cool' at first, hence the 
learning of curses early on.  He was sorted into Slytherin and hung 
out with other kids who might have had a similar outlook as far as 
the coolness of Evil, and then all those who "supposedly" represented 
Good were tools who were superior and dismissive and snobbish (from 
his perspective).  So he's already pretty much decided he'd rather 
hang out with those considered Evil because at least they don't 
pretend to be something (ie Good) that they're not (again, from his 
perspective), but he still has a lingering respect for Dumbledore 
that might have kept him from going too far until he decided that 
even he was a hypocrite because he protected the Marauders.  So I 
can't call the prank a Big Bang, but it does seem to be *a* bang.

> OK, next question.  Why did Snape return?  <snip>
> 
> In fact, the catalyst for Snape's return was his life debt to 
James.  <snip>

Here's where I get cozy with George.  I don't think any one Bang did 
the trick with Snape.  I agree with George that it was a gradual 
change involving beliefs and principles.  I don't think that rules 
out viscerality (is that a word) or emotional responses - I think 
they all go together - but I have to believe that Snape changed his 
mind instead of having it changed for him by some outside event.  I 
feel this way because of Snapes amazing strength of will.  He is a 
very stubborn individual, and I can't imagine something outside of 
himself causing him to change his mind.  He wouldn't even listen to 
the explanation about Peter being alive in PoA.  He is not going to 
change his opinion about Sirius until he has a chance to come to the 
conclusions on his own.  Even in GoF he hasn't accepted Sirius.  
Sure, he's going to deal with the truce that Dumbledore imposes, and 
apparently (although it isn't 100% clear) buys that Sirius wasn't the 
one responsible for the Potters' death.  But I think he's still 
convinced that Sirius is "capable of murder" (which is a rich 
accusation from a former DE).  I just think Snape makes up his mind 
on his own, and once he does, he's not changing it until and unless 
he's good and ready.

<snip>
> 
> Other subsidiary issues include the Ambush theories.  Again, Big 
Bang 
> is not buying for a minute that Dumbledore just twinkled at Snape 
and 
> suddenly believed Snape's conversion was true.  No, Dumbledore 
> required something Big -- an Ambush, and a really big, bloody one 
> involving lots of Snape's dearest friends.  

The ambush thing... it just doesn't make any sense to me.  Not that I 
don't think there could be an ambush, but I don't think that: 

1.Dumbledore would require such a thing.  He doesn't exact any 
similar kind of proof from Harry, Sirius, Ginny, etc. in the books, 
and it's not consistent with his character in my mind.

or:

2.An ambush would necessarily prove anything.  Someone else (can't 
remember who - sorry!) has already said that V wouldn't mind setting 
some of his people up to get Snape in Dumbledore's camp as a spy.  
What's more, setting up your former compatriots doesn't seem the best 
way to prove that you wouldn't do the same to the current.  


> Big Bang is actually quite a busy-body, because Big Bang also plans 
> to weigh in on CUPID'SBLUDGER (that is, that Florence's kissing 
> behind the greenhouse is important for some reason and is related 
to 
> why Sirius hates Snape).  As soon as Big Bang can think of a Bang 
> that is sufficiently Big, we will report back to the group. 

I have a theory brewing that would probably make a great Big Bang, 
but it's rather tongue-in-cheek and not quite worked out enough to 
post yet.

I still don't quite know what the rest of the thories are yet, so I 
don't know where I fit in.  I'm pretty sure I'd rather not see 
LOLLIPOPS be true (mostly because reading someone's post about it 
resulted in my imagining Severus Snape standing under a spotlight in 
a leotard and legwarmers singing "What I did for Love"), but will be 
ok if it is.  I think EEEEEW is every-so-very-EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW, and 
I don't know what the Prince theories or the Mercy theories are yet.  
Is there room for much cross-believing?  
Can one be a "Big GeorgiePOPS", for example?


kimberly
afraid she's just caused a new imagining to go with that of singing 
Severus