Fic vs. Spec, Lucius, backstories

Fri Feb 22 15:35:16 UTC 2002

No: HPFGUIDX 35601

This message concludes a few issues that have come up on the list, but
is only tenuously connected to topic. Anything else on the subject of
fanfic or cyber-roleplaying should go to OT-Chatter. Thanks.

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "ssk7882" <skelkins at a...> wrote:

> Oh, bite your tongue.  It's *speculation.*
>
> No, but seriously, I do see a distinction, albeit a very hazy one.
> Both fanfic and fanspec may be seen as attempts to impose ones own
> imaginative extrapolations from the original material on others, to
> colonize not only the canon itself, but also other people's readings
> of the canon.

Elkins, I think it was either just before you joined or just after,
but we had a ripping discussion recently about speculation vs. fanfic.
See message 31221 and the thread that followed it. Part of the reason
I was ribbing Cindy was her assertion that she "didn't understand" why
someone would write fanfic, and yet much of the discussion recently
has been at least as creative in nature. :^)

Elkins continued:
> Looking at my own, er, contributions to these undoubtedly infuriating-
> to-many threads, I see...complication.
<snip Avery sketch>
> Getting pretty shady, I do agree.
>
<snip parody recap>
>
> So I'm not sure *what* to call this sort of thing.  It's really
> neither fanfic nor fanspec, IMO, but (like the silly SHIPping role-
> play) some other form of play.
>

I really would classify it as a form of fanfiction--perhaps not
fleshed out with bells and whistles, but more than mere recitation of
facts. I know, from past discussions about this very problem, that
there are many on the list who think this stance controversial; but
there are also others who agree, distinugishing little between them.
The main reason I take this position is because, the extent to which
we fill in the blanks of any of the as-yet underdeveloped or
sufficiently gappy characters necessitates a great deal of
creativity--that is, we "create" the character to some degree. Now,
for the most part, that creative process attempts to remain within
acceptable parameters of plausibility. For example, you assumed that
Cupid's Snitch was too far-fetched to be "believable," but you buy
into the credence you assign to the Fourth Man (at least, I think you do).

But the point is, it's still a creative process, one that can no
longer be said to be "based" entirely on canon. Yes, we can all twist
the canon a number of ways--and some have, to varying degrees of
plausibility. If I desired, I could probably devote a lot of time to
"proving" that HP is really an allegory for gay rights (Harry lived in
a literal closet for 11 years before discovering what he really is) or
some equally odd notion, like...oh, HP is "opening the way for a new
generation to embrace the Evil One." These are both real--I just saw
the former on a different discussion forum, and the latter is courtesy
of demonbusters.com.

Hm. I guess it is all about format. There's an overtone sometimes from
non-fanfic writers that suggests they think that fanfic doesn't base
itself firmly in canon to make any of its more fantastic claims. I'm
not saying any non-fanfic people actually *think* that, but sometimes
it comes across as an attitude of, "Well, you hang your stories on
such minute details in the story--your hypotheses are not really based
on canon, or at least canon-as-a-whole, but rather facts lifted out
and viewed in relative isolation from the rest--so it has to be
relegated to the realm of fanfic because it could never possibly
become an integral part of the story."

So forgive me if I seem amused when staunch "I don't get it"
non-fanfic writers expend a great deal of energy breathing life into
minor window-dressing characters such as Mr. Lestrange, Florence the
school slut (judging how she attracted Sirius, Severus, Mr. Lestrange,
Avery, Barty, and Peter all within a few days!), or others.

> Perhaps we should just call it "messing about with the props in the
> fictive wreckage while we wait for Book Five comes out," and leave it
> at that.
>

Well, I definitely think we're all getting just a tad punchy. Witness
the personification of George. (And thanks, btw, for pinning him down.
I'm still on the fence, but leaning toward the Georgian philosophy,
definitely.) And I must say, the Snape-theories at-a-glance will be
very helpful when I catch up and work them into the Snape FAQ (only
13,500 messages to go, folks!).

> So on to a few brief comments on your Malfoy backstory (which I
> absolutely adore, by the way).

Thank you! :^D I'm rather fond of it, myself.

You suggested:
> 1945.  Grindlewald.  An assassination plot.  And...
>
> Hey!  Gwen, where's the Time-Turner?  You *know* that there has to be
> a Time-Turner involved here somehow, don't you?  How can there be
> impassioned ends-means arguments over the wisdom or the justification
> of going back in time to assassinate Grindlewald without a Time-
> Turner?
>
> Please tell me that Dumbledore and his crew are using a Time-Turner,
> Gwen.  Please?  Please?

Er.... I hadn't really thought about it. Why would there need to be an
ends-means justification of going back in time? Dumbledore *did*
defeat Grindelwald in 1945, and he would have been about 100 years old
at the time.... so why go back and do it?

My gut tendency would be to say no, since the accident of timing
involving Malfoy, Sr.'s cursing would get sticky if a Time-Turner is
involved. (Wagging Groucho Marx's eyebrows, holding his cigar: and
what would happen if Tina Turner were involved, we don't even want to
contemplate.)

But...oh, heck. In the interest of benevolent topical fodder for you
and the punch bowl crew, I'd say nothing so far rules it out.

> On the Imperius Defense:
<snip me>
> Actually, all loose-canon snarkiness aside, that's *precisely* how
> I've been imagining all that going down as well.  <snip Elkins>  The
fact that so
> many of the DEs got away with it has always rather implied to my
> mind, as well, that they must have had a contingency plan already
> laid in place.
>

Yep. Among other things, Lucius made sure he was seen a couple places,
to establish alibi (and specifically not knowing what happened), a
bunch of them met at the DE hideout (what? Of course they had one) and
destroyed evidence/practised their stories, maybe even modified each
other's memories a bit to place a false Imperius memory there. Lucius
also met with his solicitor, told him a watered-down version of the
official story, and was "advised" to tell the Ministry as soon as
possible. And last, he presented Narcissa with a document to memorize
for the investigation. Oh, he had it covered. And pulled off the
acting job of his life telling them all about it.

> On Lucius Malfoy's Job:
>
<snip me again>
>
> It could be a sinecure that came with the family name and estate.  If
> there was once a wizarding aristocracy, or a wizarding equivalent of
> the House of Lords, then those old families could well have retained
> perks of that sort even once the system as a whole had been
> dismantled.

That's true, and I hadn't thought of it, but if so, I believe it would
be as you say, a "perk" and doesn't carry half as much responsibility
as it does influence. Hm. I quite like that, in some ways. Thanks.

Ah, yes, and the last thing, which really ties much more closely into
the first idea--that the real "fanfic" here isn't actually your
canonical musing, but your descriptive hijinks on the high seas....

> Gwen's words slowly echo away.  The young mermaid on the smaller rock
> pushes her scuba mask up onto her forehead and looks around, eyes
> wide.
>
> "But..." she whispers. "But I don't understand.  Where was she
> *speaking* from?"
>
> "I don't know."  Elkins hugs herself hard, shivering.  "That
> was...really kind of creepy, wasn't it?"

VBG. Indeed, you all are Cyber-Action Role Playing. Hey, I just
invented an acronym: CARP! Carpe Potter! Carpe Theorem!

Gwen