The Big Bangers and Neville

[cindysphynx]

No: HPFGUIDX 35901

Elkins offered:

> Ah!  Well, if Neville can be a *toddler* at the time, then that's 
> *different!*

Uh, I think we're still talking past each other.  A "baby" 
or "infant" is a child under the age of 1.  A toddler is, um, maybe 
age 1-3.  I'll admit to having been a little, uh, loose with the 
terminology at times.

OK.  So under my timeline, Neville is born sometime in 1980.  Let's 
pick the middle of 1980.  That makes him a proper toddler when the 
Potters are killed because he is 16 months old or so.  So if the 
torture happens ::Cindy pauses to think of a torture date that will 
give the greatest possible Bang:: on Christmas day 1981, Neville is 
18 months old, and still a toddler. 

So I can have 1981 and still have a toddler.  Can't I?

Besides, I just *hate* dragging out the timeline to put the capture 
of Mrs. Lestrange's gang into mid-1982 or, heaven forbid, 1983.  
Canon seems to suggest these things happened *fast*.  Big Bangers 
like things to happen fast, you see.  Nothing is more dull than a 
long, drawn out investigation of a crime.  Sheez, what does grief-
stricken Moody *do*, anyway?  Fill out forms, wait for DNA analysis 
to come back from the lab, interview peripheral witnesses, eat 
donuts?  Heck no.  Moody hits the street and nabs the Lestranges 
while the trail is *red hot*.  And if Mrs. Lestrange is going to try 
to find Voldemort, she seems like the type to get right on it; not 
the type to take 18 months to get it in gear.  

I still think canon is stronger for a torture date in late 1981 or 
early 1982.  Crouch is 19 when he is brought in.  The Ministry was 
under "great pressure" to catch the perpetrators.  Dumbledore says 
the attacks occurred when everyone thought they were safe.  When 
Voldemort fell, canon gives the impression that things got back to 
normal quickly -- Hagrid suggests people just snapped right out of 
trances.  And Karkaroff's Pensieve scene suggests that the DE 
network came a'tumbling down pretty quickly.  

Can you give me June 1982 as the latest date for the torture?  Can 
we have the Lestranges caught quickly, so that it is more likely 
that Neville's evidence caused their capture?  Can Neville be just 
turning two when the torture happens?  Can we have Mrs. Lestrange 
burst through the door as Neville is blowing out his birthday 
candles or something?  

Elkins wrote (on her objection to Reverse-Memory-Charm-Neville on 
the grounds that it was unsupported by canon.>
 
> Forgive me.  People sometimes say hard things when under pressure. 
> And besides, you *know* how Edgy I can get sometimes.  Especially 
on 
> the subject of timelines.  Timelines put everyone a bit on edge, 
> don't they?

No problem at all.  I know you didn't *mean* it.  You were just, er, 
provoking me into a spirited defense of Reverse-Memory-Charm 
Neville.  Nice job.

Now that Kimberly and her Faith, *they're* definitely squeamish.  
Something needs to be done about them, don't ya think?

Elkins again:

> It was that insistence on 1981 that did it.  1981, 1981...I just 
> *hate* that year 1981!  As if 1981 doesn't hog up enough of the 
> timeline already.  <snip>  >Why should 
> 1981 get all the glory?

This just doesn't sound like a Big Banger talking there.  Steady 
State adherents like to spread things out.  Everything is gradual.  
Each year gets its turn in the spotlight.  Things move at a glacial 
pace.  Leaves turn.  Paint dries.  Grass grows.  That sort of 
thing.  

Bangers are different.  Bangers *want* everything happening at a 
really frenzied pace.  We are very impatient, and we have no use for 
deferred gratification.  We *want* to compress the timeline.  That 
way we don't have any of those wavy special effects that show the 
passage of time.  Don't we?  Please agree with me.  I can't stand 
any more conflict, I just can't take it anymore, I can't!  

Elkins again:

> And...well...except for maybe when it comes to that Toadkeeper 
> thing.  I just don't know about that whole Toadkeeper idea.

You've been awfully patient and forgiving and all, so I'll let you 
in on a little secret.  

I'm not too sure about ToadKeeper.  Don't tell Judy or anything, but 
she stung me pretty good with her assault on ToadKeeper.  I'm just 
putting on a brave face at this point.  I'd *love* for you to come 
up with something for this Neville/Trevor issue so that I could 
scuttle ToadKeeper, 'cause it is seriously taking on water.  And it 
has a *really* lame nickname.  But until something better comes 
along, Big Bang has to keep ToadKeeper around . . . just in 
case . . . because it is the only Neville/Trevor theory around other 
than Faith.  And Faith and Big Bang will *never* get along.  

Elkins wrote (explaining why Neville didn't get a pint-sized 
Cruciatus Curse of his very own):

> Nah.  I think she just didn't know he was there.  He was hidden in 
> the closet.  I make the case for the closet for two reasons: (a)
> every cheesy issue-of-the-week made-for-TV-movie ever written that
> deals with early childhood trauma *always* has the kid hidden in 
the
> closet, and (b) it, uh, provides a literary parallel with Harry's 
own 
> early childhood experience.
> 
> So it's canonical to have Neville in the closet.  Really it is.

Hmmm.  If Reverse-Memory-Charm Neville is repeatedly re-living his 
parents' torture, doesn't it, uh, help, if he actually saw it?

How about if the torture happens right there in front of Neville
(with toddler Neville wearing his pointy birthday hat and all), but 
someone tells Mrs. Lestrange to spare Neville?  Then you can have 
your whole snappy "Crouch Jr. to the rescue" thing, which I do like 
very much, and I can have Neville actually *see* the whole darn 
thing.

As an aside, I am having some trouble closing the loop on Reverse-
Memory-Charm Neville, and now that Elkins is back on board, maybe 
she can help.  Why *is* Neville's memory so bad, exactly?  Was his 
memory actually damaged by the charm?  That's possible, I guess. 

But I have another, Bigger, variant about why Neville has a bad 
memory.  It's not that his memory is damaged, you see.  It is that 
he re-lives the torture when he is under stress.  So when Snape 
says "Add one rat spleen," Neville hears, "AAAAARRRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!"  
His memories of the torture just block out everything else.  When 
Neville is not under stress (like in Herbology or with Professor 
Lupin), he can actually hear what is being said to him and can 
perform.  

But then I don't know exactly how this is going to change when it is 
time for Neville to turn into Weird Edgy Neville.

Cindy (who thought we *were* discussing canon, but doesn't with to 
be set straight on that point)