The Z factor, Lexicon, the perennial kiddiefic debate (LONG)

[Tabouli]

No: HPFGUIDX 32472

(sorry, sent this to OT by mistake, gh)

Amy Z:
> I've seen have been the Grade Z variety where the 
special effects budget is $5.74 (whatever the director found in his 
couch that a.m., I suspect) and they're lucky to have a hand puppet to 
communicate a wolfish sort of thing.

Ahhh, *now* we know the secret behind that mysterious Z factor... our Amy is a purveyor of Z grade movies which use hand puppets to represent werewolves!

Steve:
> If you need to find that kind of information in the future, check 
the Lexicon.

(Tabouli backpedals frantically, feeling she is too venerable a listmember for such rebukes).  Sorry, sorry, it did occur to me to do so at the time, but I was lazy and didn't want to crank up the Internet again just to check: after all, the whereabouts of Fluffy is obscure enough that I hadn't heard it mentioned on-list before (an increasingly rare thing) so I thought it mightn't be there.  Clearly I underestimate Steve's thoroughness...

Penny:
> Is a believable 18 yr old Harry really a childrens' lit protagonist after all?
>
>For those who are subjectively inclined to view the HP books as 
childrens' books, I'd be curious to hear your reasons.  Is it the age of 
the main characters (and if so, at what age would a later book cross the 
bridge into something other than childrens' lit for you)? Is it the fact 
that the books are marketed to children?  Something else?<

It's not the age of the characters for me, it's how they're written.  Sure, most children's books have child protagonists, but not all.  There are certainly children's books in existence with adult and teenage protagonists.  I mean, hey, in Malory Towers Enid Blyton followed her characters through to 18, and no-one would ever suggest that that was an adult's or even combined series!

I feel I've argued my reasons for dubbing HP a children's series several times, but perhaps a recap (I often have this problem on this list, as topics seem to recycle pretty regularly... do I repeat my earlier comment, tell people to check the archives, or remain silent?).

OK.  Let me see (braces herself for howlers).  It's an overall feel thing, particularly given the era in which the books are set (i.e. 1990s, not 1950s).  JKR is addressing a lot of fairly heavy issues in the book: murder, betrayal, sex, persecution, abuse, etc., but her world is essentially child-sized and plot driven.  There's an innocence about it.  Much more so in the first two books, but arguably still so in the second two.  Good and Evil are clear-cut, even if allegiances are sometimes in doubt.  The consequences and explorations of very serious events are neatened and skimmed over (e.g. Harry's treatment at the Dursley's).  Emotions are described poignantly, but not plumbed too deeply.  Sex is handled with kid gloves, and I'll wager will continue to be (JKR herself said it wouldn't fit with the "tone of the books" for Hermione to have a teenage pregnancy, or develop a drug habit, for example).  Compare HP with the way 12 year old protagonists experience sex in "The Go-Between" or "Ada", definitely adult books, and the difference is profound.

I'd need to muse on this a bit more, but another aspect of HP that says "children's books" to me is the handling of the child-adult divide.  The "kids save the day" (guided by the wise adult who understands that they're really far cleverer than the nasty bumbling adults who are trying to thwart them) motif is pure Famous Five.  Popular in children's fiction because children (who typically feel disempowered with regard to adult problems and emotions, as any child whose parents divorce will know) like the idea of taking centre stage and being recognised.  Only in GoF do we start to glimpse the immense complexity of the wider adult world, much of which functions independently of children (and often disregards them).  I suppose it's possible that the last three books might induce me to call them Young Adult fiction, but in all honesty I think this would be a bit jarring for the unity of the series as a whole.

I often mention 'The Go-Between' in this discussion, because I think it's an interesting and convincing example of an adult book with a 12 year old boy as protagonist.  The author (L.P. Hartley) draws an intelligent, sensitive 12 year old and manages to portray his innocence without patronising him.  Watch his handling of the adult-child gap... much more realistic, I think (albeit quite disturbing).

Then there's Antonia Forest's books (yes, she of the tragic encounter I described in OT), which convincingly presents her stories through the eyes of a 12-14.5 year old girl (Nicola).  These are now out of print, but I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of anyone who's read them... IMO they're a stronger candidate than HP for the children's series which should really be young adult fiction category.  Antonia takes on some very weighty adult issues... in "The Ready-Made Family" Nicola comes home from school to discover that her 19 year old sister is about to marry a 41 year old divorced man with three children, who are coming to live with her family.  No neatening of consequences there, the whole situation unfolds in ghastly detail through 13yo Nicola's eyes.  Although she does end up doing a rescue, she doesn't "save the day" by any means: all the complexity is left in, and Nicola, who *starts off* with a children's book "save the day" "good/evil" "I know better than the bumbling adults" approach to the situation, she ends up getting a new and painful window into the complexity of the adult world.

The end of GoF has elements of this, of course, but there's still a certain cartoonish aspect to JKR's adult characters which detracts from the real seriousness of the situation (making it more "child-sized"... the adults are still securely bumbling).  Of course, a significant difference is that JKR is juggling two tasks, creating a magical parallel world *and* characterisation and human dramas, whereas Antonia Forest is only tackling the latter, giving her a lot more air time to explore the human element and consequences in detail.  Perhaps that's why GoF got so long...

Tabouli (who knows she is tempting fate writing such blasphemy...)


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